Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Enhancement Limits, Mixed Actions and Defense Questions

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Enhancement Limits, Mixed Actions and Defense Questions

    Hi! I have a few questions about the Triniry Continuum CORE system.

    1) Exist any limit of how much Enhancement you can gain in a single roll? In the Scion 2ed states a total limit of five Enhancement.

    2) When a character makes a Mixed Action how handle the Enhancement bonus? My main question is: If a Martial Artist character want attack two enemies using Unarmed attack, I must apply the Unarmed Weapon Enhancement Bonus to each attack? How other Enhancements, like a bonus received from a Feint Stunt, interacts with that?

    3) In the CORE says: "The player may roll the most appropriate Reslience Attribute without any Skills..." How define the most appropriate Resilient Attribute? In the Scion 2ed says the "highest Resilient Attribute".

  • #2
    #3: Whatever fits for the situation. Do you continue to fight through taking punches from your opponent? That could be Stamina, Composure, or possibly Resolve. Do you hold your ground until the attacker commits to their attack and then dodge? That could be Composure or Resolve.

    Comment


    • #3
      1) Trinity Core and AEon don’t impose an Enhancement limit, and the Psi power system works off this for many of its effects. The Aberrant drafts have included (for that game) a section imposing a max +5 limit from sources except Scale.

      2) I need to re-read the section before I answer.

      3) This is entirely situation dependent. If the character is bracing to take the hit before responding with his counterattack - probably Stamina. As Florin says, if he waits until the last moment before ducking out of the way - Composure or Resolve.


      Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

      Comment


      • #4
        1) The only time any enhancement on core and Aeon that the bonus is inevitably higher than 5 is when dealing with the energy attacks. And to be fair, the reason for that is because you are doing 2 things at same time, activating and attacking, as you must spend the successes on activating, going thru defence and doing the attack stunts. You will notice that it don’t happen when the attacker create a weapon as an action and attack with it as another action.

        I personally would use the limit of 5 in any situation except for those specific powers, but it would be a house rule.

        Comment


        • #5
          Isn't the point of things that if you have too many Enhancements (which add dice) the whole thing goes up Scale, which is a straight up gaming thing rather than a roll thing. Through this one won't have the whole buckets of dice issue that cropped up in previous edition.

          Comment


          • #6
            In mixed actions the enhancement is divided up among the applicable actions.

            It's under the Enhancement section on page 71. Sometimes Core refers to mixed actions as "doing two things at once"

            "If doing two things at once, the player divides their Enhancements and uses the successes toward accomplishing the tasks relevant to them."


            Raksha are my fae-vorite.

            Reincarnation of magnificentmomo.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
              Isn't the point of things that if you have too many Enhancements (which add dice) the whole thing goes up Scale, which is a straight up gaming thing rather than a roll thing. Through this one won't have the whole buckets of dice issue that cropped up in previous edition.
              Enhancement aren’t buckets of dice. They’re literally just a number of successes you add after you roll your smaller dice pool.

              In Storypath you’re unlikely to ever roll more than 11 dice, but you’re also reasonably likely to have to consistently roll 6-10 dice. Enhancement comes if you roll any successes from that pool and has nothing to do with making the dice pool bigger.


              Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bunyip View Post

                Enhancement aren’t buckets of dice. They’re literally just a number of successes you add after you roll your smaller dice pool.

                In Storypath you’re unlikely to ever roll more than 11 dice, but you’re also reasonably likely to have to consistently roll 6-10 dice. Enhancement comes if you roll any successes from that pool and has nothing to do with making the dice pool bigger.
                Makes competitive power levels less swingy as well. Most time if one side has a really large advantage enhancement/ scale the will win in dice pools. Not every time but most.

                Going from memory it makes me think of Vampire the Masquerade Dominate vs Vampire the Requiem Dominate.

                Masquerade says you can not effect vampires of a higher Blood Potency. Masquerade had no chance.

                Requiem your Blood Potency is part of the roll. Requiem relied on the dice and many times that was very swingy. I have thrown 25 dice with no success!

                Storypath provides a nice balance between them.

                Best regards



                Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
                Current Focus
                Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
                Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

                Comment


                • #9
                  just want to remember, just because you have 5 enhancements it’s not auto success on difficulty 1-5, you still need to roll at least 1 success to be able to use the enhancements.

                  So, if you roll 1 dice and have 5 enhancements you have 30% chance of success on difficulties 1-6.

                  Scale can make the things a bit more interesting, because you can say a super fast Nova trying to outrun a person will not need to roll (and actually you can say that if the challenge is trivial), but it’s always possible to fail the roll if the SG ask for it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Having now re-read the various mixed actions sections in Core:

                    Originally posted by shadowninja View Post
                    2) When a character makes a Mixed Action how handle the Enhancement bonus? My main question is: If a Martial Artist character want attack two enemies using Unarmed attack, I must apply the Unarmed Weapon Enhancement Bonus to each attack? How other Enhancements, like a bonus received from a Feint Stunt, interacts with that?
                    The intent appears to be that you gain a single Enhancement bonus. In your example, Your martial artist rolls the single dice pool (assuming the two MA attacks are using the same dice pool - if they’re not, use the lowest). If you roll any successes, add the weapon Enhancement. That gives you the total successes you have to distribute among the attacks. You only gain the Enhancement bonus from equipment once, not with every attack.

                    The intent around actual different activities is a little less clear. From the example on p.103, it appears that you may add the highest Enhancement from your actions. In that example, the character takes two close combat actions (no Enhancement), draws his pistol (reflexive and no Enhancement) and takes one shot. The gun has 2 Enhancement and he adds that to his four successes for a total of six.

                    Putting that all together, I’d suggest that the intent for mixed actions is you take the lowest dice pool and roll that, add the highest Enhancement, and split the resulting successes between the actions. To answer your question around Feint, by strict reading you’d choose whether Feint or your weapon bonus was higher, but I’d be inclined to say that Feint is an exception and adds Enhancement in addition to a mixed action in addition to the single other Enhancement, and it’s specifically come from your allies setting up your opponents for a devastating blow.


                    Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My understand is a bit different, imagine you have 2 actions, jumping an obstacle and attacking with a katana, to jump she is using a trampoline so she gets 1 enhancement, but the difficulty is 2, and for the attack she gets 3 from the katana and difficulty 3 (defence).

                      She get 1 success, enough to get the enhancements, she need to jump to attack so she uses the success to jump and gain 1 enhancement from the trampoline. The 3 enhancements from the katana are enough to go thru the defence and hit.

                      If the difficulty for the jump was 3, she would fail the jump, because she can’t use the katana enhancements to jump, failing automatically the attack.

                      Now change the 1st action to an attack, my guess would be she can use the weapon enhancements on each attack, but still need to accumulate successes to beat the defences, and cannot use the enhancements form one attack in the other, basically if she has 2 defence 4 adversaries and 1 success and 2 attacks with katanas, she will hit just one of them, and will have no spare successes to spend in stunts.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                        My understand is a bit different, imagine you have 2 actions, jumping an obstacle and attacking with a katana, to jump she is using a trampoline so she gets 1 enhancement, but the difficulty is 2, and for the attack she gets 3 from the katana and difficulty 3 (defence).
                        Your understanding doesn’t appear consistent with the examples in the book.

                        Edit to add: *But*, Scion Origin mixed actions section clearly spells out that any Enhancements in mixed actions only apply to the action they Enhance. I think this makes more sense in practice but runs a risk of unintended rules abuse when you have a high Enhancement piece of equipment and use mixed action to do multiple of the same action. For example, the katana above with 3 Enhancement, you’d be quite rightly tempted to to a mixed action to strike a bunch of times, exploiting the system to gain +3 Enhancement on every smaller number of successes you roll.

                        I think the spirit of the rules intent is for mixed actions to largely do different things, not multiples of the same thing. Or where you do multiples of the same thing, they’re against different targets. So in your example above, if you used the trampoline to jump and then did two attacks with the katana, the intent is you jump and then attack two different people. If you’re just attacking the one target, you only make one attack and work with the Inflict Damage and Critical stunts restrictions.

                        And this still doesn’t strictly help determine where things like *feint* go. Keeping within the spirit of action movie combat that Trinity tends to follow, I’d suggest that feint gets added to the specific attack pool as well as other Enhancements relevant to that action.

                        For example, your trampoline and katana scenario. Let’s say you have 2 Enhancement from your ally’s previous Feint against and you’re splitting into three actions - the jump, and two slashes with the katana against two separate opponents. (If you only had one opponent you could only attack with the katana once.) You roll the smallest pool and get 3 successes.

                        The jump was Difficulty 2 and you have +1 Enhancement from the trampoline, so you spend one success there, add the Enhancement and achieve the jump.

                        Both opponents have defense 3 (therefore Difficulty 3. You have 2 successes left over, and you have 2 Enhancement for the Feint. I’d say it’s fair to apply +2 from the Feint and +3 from the katana to Enemy A, and just +3 from the katana for enemy B. You split your two successes one each, gaining 6 for Enemy A and 4 for Enemy B. Both are wearing soft armor 2. For Enemy A you spend 2 for Inflict Damage, and the other 4 on Critical. You score a deep wound on that enemy. For Enemy B you spend 2 for Inflict Damage, slicing into him, and then apply your other 2 successes into Feint against this enemy, as your cut has taken him off balance and your ally can take advantage of it next turn.

                        I think that’s a fair use of the system. Thoughts?
                        Last edited by Bunyip; 09-08-2019, 02:23 AM.


                        Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Honestly my exemple was on the weapon enhancement, so I didn’t think a lot about the other enhancements, and the multiple attacks were against multiple targets at reach.

                          Situational enhancements, like Feint and anything granted by conditions and fields, apply only once, as you described. I think the way you put in the last paragraph is perfect, makes sense.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bunyip I think that you would only get the enhancement from your katana once, and would need to divide that +3 among your katana actions, according to the passage on enhancements I cited earlier.

                            This was one of the things that makes Dynamic Control in PhotoK so good, is that each action explicitly gets its own +1 enhancement.


                            Raksha are my fae-vorite.

                            Reincarnation of magnificentmomo.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MoroseMorgan View Post
                              Bunyip I think that you would only get the enhancement from your katana once, and would need to divide that +3 among your katana actions, according to the passage on enhancements I cited earlier.

                              This was one of the things that makes Dynamic Control in PhotoK so good, is that each action explicitly gets its own +1 enhancement.
                              Makes sense.

                              Actually the katana would not be that effective as you are using it to slice multiple targets and not a proper kill hit. Makes more sense than my original opinion.

                              Edit: Also, when you are attacking multiple trivial targets, you use the Take Out stunt multiple times limited by the roll result + enhancements, and don’t get multiple enhancements from the weapons.

                              I was wrong and mislead Bunyip
                              Last edited by Mateus Luz; 09-09-2019, 01:53 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X