Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tier and Scale - Novas vs Mundanes

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • pcontop
    started a topic Tier and Scale - Novas vs Mundanes

    Tier and Scale - Novas vs Mundanes

    I am confused as to what Tier does, in general.

    So, do Novas benefit from Dramatic Scale differences when using any power on a Mundane, a baseline human? Does he add, say, 6 enhancements when using a Quantum Bolt on them? Or is their use of stun on a bystander an automatic success, since they have a 3 scale difference? Is this working as intended, considering the normally very limited dice pool the powers have (6 dice give a little more than 2 successes on avg)?

  • pcontop
    replied
    Originally posted by Florin View Post
    Also, read this: http://theonyxpath.com/storypaths-scale/. It clearly answers "Is Tier Scale?" with "Short answer, no. There has been some question about how Tier [a]ffects Scale, and the longer answer is: It doesn't, really."

    Well, this settles for me, then! Thanks!

    I was frankly worried that, for instance, a Terat could have Scale from both Tier and Invulnerability.

    Leave a comment:


  • Florin
    replied
    Also, read this: http://theonyxpath.com/storypaths-scale/. It clearly answers "Is Tier Scale?" with "Short answer, no. There has been some question about how Tier [a]ffects Scale, and the longer answer is: It doesn't, really."

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by pcontop View Post


    And what about Combat and Scale, on 109?
    Page 111 now, and it’s as I described a few posts before:

    Example: Michael, the Pyrokinetic, picks a fight with The Iron Rhino, a powerful superhu- man monster with rippling muscles and skin as strong as iron. Michael and the Rhino have similar stats, but The Iron Rhino gains an 2 Enhancement bonus to his attacks, due to his superior Scale rating in power.

    Iron Rhino probably have Mega Might that add scale to the Might rolls during combat and only to cause injury stunts (Aberrant on Mega Might description).

    Leave a comment:


  • pcontop
    replied
    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post

    Page 75 Core



    That’s the new text about Scale and Tiers. They removed all the misleading texts as I said before.

    And what about Combat and Scale, on 109?

    Leave a comment:


  • Florin
    replied
    Originally posted by pcontop View Post
    That's a nice theory. But can you find any mentions on that?

    Sure, see Trinity: Aberrant if you backed it. Novas do not have any scale unless they have a mega-attribute, mega-edge, or power which gives it to them. They have no inherent scale based on tier.

    I'd love for you to quote anything from a current version of the rules which says any character gets inherent scale from tier. If you're going to ask people to prove their theories, you should prove yours.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by pcontop View Post
    That's a nice theory. But can you find any mentions on that?
    Page 75 Core

    SCALE AND TIER
    In general, characters of higher Tiers have the ability to also gain higher Scale. This power rep- resents their supernatural abilities, and sometimes their raw strength against other characters. Where a normal person probably couldn’t outrun a car, a Nova with a speed boost could. While these people are functionally human and would normally oper- ate on the same Scale as other humans, their special abilities give them a huge advantage. This and other books will inform you when Scale comes into play
    That’s the new text about Scale and Tiers. They removed all the misleading texts as I said before.

    Leave a comment:


  • pcontop
    replied
    That's a nice theory. But can you find any mentions on that?

    Leave a comment:


  • Zeea
    replied
    Also, worth noting that novas don't have generic Scale. They have powers that give them Scale in certain things. Whereas Storypath in general, in other games, can instead just say "this monster is Scale 4" and not worry about specifying powers that grant Scale 4. But in Aberrant, a nova has to have an actual power to get that bonus, and doesn't get the bonus just for being a nova going up against someone who isn't.

    However, novas do get a different inherent bonus! They're Tier 3, so they succeed on dice rolls more often than normal people.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by pcontop View Post
    Oh, I found this in the Trinity Core - pg 109:
    "Example: Michael, the Pyrokinetic, picks a fight with The Iron Rhino, a powerful superhuman monster with rippling muscles and skin as strong as iron. Michael and the Rhino have similar stats, but The Iron Rhino gains an Enhancement bonus of two successes to all actions, due to his superior Scale rating.
    However, if Michael gets into a fight with Lawrence, a regular joe, then Michael will gain two additional successes to all actions since he is a superior type of combatant."

    So yes, a Nova gains a +4 enhancement on any attack to the psion in combat. And, just as well, it's needed a +4 successes to damage. Novas are tough!
    This text is on the old files, now it’s on page 111 and says
    Example: Michael, the Pyrokinetic, picks a fight with The Iron Rhino, a powerful superhu- man monster with rippling muscles and skin as strong as iron. Michael and the Rhino have similar stats, but The Iron Rhino gains an 2 Enhancement bonus to his attacks, due to his superior Scale rating in power.
    The Iron Rhino probably have Mega Might, otherwise it would not work.

    Update your file on DriveThruRPG, it was updated and many of the misleading texts were changed.
    Last edited by Mateus Luz; 09-16-2019, 06:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • pcontop
    replied
    Oh, I found this in the Trinity Core - pg 109:
    "Example: Michael, the Pyrokinetic, picks a fight with The Iron Rhino, a powerful superhuman monster with rippling muscles and skin as strong as iron. Michael and the Rhino have similar stats, but The Iron Rhino gains an Enhancement bonus of two successes to all actions, due to his superior Scale rating.
    However, if Michael gets into a fight with Lawrence, a regular joe, then Michael will gain two additional successes to all actions since he is a superior type of combatant."

    So yes, a Nova gains a +4 enhancement on any attack to the psion in combat. And, just as well, it's needed a +4 successes to damage. Novas are tough!

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
    About the Antagonists, their numbers on the recent versions were reduced a lot, a Terat now rolls 9 as primary pool and gaisn5 enhancements and possibly scale.

    Just as a comment, the novas with Q4+ are more powerful than the Aberrants described in Aeon, I mean, novas can have much higher scale than the Aberrants described. I guess they were made less powerful to be possible to interact with Psions, otherwise the scale would be overwhelming.

    I mean they have beings like the Colony, living Worlds, so I don't think all Novas are weaker.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    About the Antagonists, their numbers on the recent versions were reduced a lot, a Terat now rolls 9 as primary pool and gaisn5 enhancements and possibly scale.

    Just as a comment, the novas with Q4+ are more powerful than the Aberrants described in Aeon, I mean, novas can have much higher scale than the Aberrants described. I guess they were made less powerful to be possible to interact with Psions, otherwise the scale would be overwhelming.

    Edit: I don’t know when it was added, but all (true) aberrant Archetypes in the last version of Aeon now have Scale. That put some extra power on the Aberrant hands and more in balance with Aberrant rules.
    Last edited by Mateus Luz; 09-16-2019, 05:58 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Think Tier this way:
    Tier 1 is never higher than Scale 1.
    Tier 2 can raise their power up to Scale 2, occasionally on not so combative way raise a bit more.
    Tier 3 can raise their power on a limited way, still on human comprehension.
    Tier 4 can raise their power to a unintelligible level, godlike at least.

    As I see, that’s the only relation between Tier and Scale.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zeea
    replied
    I don't think QCs are meant to go one-on-many with lots of PCs or anything. I've gotten the strong impression that they're supposed to work just like PCs, but the numbers are just simplified into the most relevant things.

    Originally posted by pcontop View Post
    Can't we? It's the best piece of intended power comparison we have so far. In a game that is made to put psions vs novas, the novas are dreadful because they have these advantages.

    More and more, it would be very interesting to have an example of play. There's too much of the ruleset that's very open to interpretation.
    Danielle Lauzon said elsewhere that Aeon and Aberrant were written with slightly different mechanics, and that psions would probably get a way to increase Scale (probably by giving up 2 Enhancement per Scale increase) to be able to hurt novas in a crossover game.

    So, basically, it's probably not intended as an in-setting "novas have this big advantage over psions" thing. That's also reflected by the sample psionic characters in Aberrant having Scale rather than using Aeon's rules, and novas not really having much Scale (other than size) in Aeon. It's just a quirk of the rules evolution between games
    Last edited by Zeea; 09-11-2019, 09:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X