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What they need to clear up when they do a world atlas (Problems with Aeon's Earth.

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  • #16
    Ah, we're both LGBT historians from the U.S. southeast on the autism/Aspergers spectrum. That's a kinda funny coincidence. I'd agree that the FSA is not actually a fascist state under traditional definitions, and that plutocratic oligarchy is a better description from a historical perspective. It's probably fascist under looser definitions of "right-wing authoritarian with corporations involved so only a minor quibble there.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Astromancer View Post
      Some suggestions I'd like to make about the Aeon setting in North America.

      1: It's a matter of taste but since they stressed the matter of agency when I got my Masters in History (Aspergers can play hob with spelling and writing style). It seems to me that there would be many groups outside of the Elites of the FSA that would favor the FSA. Examples would include the upperclasses of El Savador (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Salvador) a group noted for brutal right-wing politics since the 18th century. The Native American tribes of eastern Nicaragua, who always fight with the central power of Nicaragua, and many other otherwise marginal groups. If the FSA plays divide and conquer, there would historically be many groups that would willingly play along.
      The writers are invested in the idea that the FSA is evilly stupid. The exception is the retcon of them being behind al-Qaeda in the UAN. Native Americans are also fetishised as pure spirits like the one Canadian Talent in Aberrant, so the Nicaraguan ones can't be used like that.

      2: This next one also comes from my history degree. The FSA is described as Fascist in the book, but the descriptions, while that of a right-wing authoritarian government, wasn't Fascist. Unless "Fascist" is used as a general pejorative, it has a clear meaning. The very fact that you've got a state that allows people to buy as many votes as they can afford and offers real due process to a portion of its citizens precludes the FSA being fascist. That Cassel can run his corporation as a separate power center within the FSA also precludes the FSA being Fascist. Could we call the FSA a plutocratic oligarchy (like present day Russia or China)? The term would be far more accurate.

      I hope these two were politely stated. I'll move on to other continents next.
      They're using it like Orwell said it had become, anything the user doesn't like. The FSA as presented are the world's worst fascists, which should probably be a post of its own.

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      • #18
        The whole FSA is one of those elements of Aeon that I just don't like, at all, in no way. In fact its one of those elements that make me turn away from the setting while happily enjoying the mechanics. So basically I would totally approve of changes to it or fan made variances to it.

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        • #19
          A while back, there was a suggestion on how to address that issue for those who don't like the FSA. In short, swap North America and Europe. Instead of Europe being a post-apocalyptic ruin, North America is. Instead of North America being a fascist state, Europe is. There's even some logic to that: just say that the Aberrant war was very harsh on North America.

          Most of this can be done with some simple relocation and renaming. The Æsculapean Order is focusing it's efforts in North America, not Europe, and is contending with Wycoff's Blight (which is more severe in this version of the setting), not la Blessure (which may not even exist; and if it does, it's not as severe as in the default setting). The FSA becomes the FSE, the successor to the European Union, and Orgotek's headquarters are located in Montressor, Switzerland.

          Matthieu (Matthew?) Zweidler was born and raised in America and is something of a “melting pot mutt” with a geneology that branches out all over the world. Alexander Cassel is Greek.

          And so on.
          Last edited by Dataweaver; 11-13-2019, 06:31 PM.


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          • #20
            You could use a country that actually is fascist/national socialist in present day: China. However, Aeon has the negative reports about it to FSA and Australian propaganda. In Aberrant, its current RL practices are hand waved away by saying China became a model international citizen after N-Day ("Uighurs? Who are they?")

            At least in 1st. ed, there was some admiration for the FSA surviving the Aberrant Wars, and there were Ale Cassel and the Truamericans who wanted to bring back America's ideals. 2nd has them as villains who are attacking Africa for the evilulz, being attacked in turn by South America in righteous vengence for actions over a century before. The only hope is intervention by the more enlightened outside world. Even the FSA NPC is a cheap shot.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by muon View Post
              You could use a country that actually is fascist/national socialist in present day: China.
              Fascists are extreme authoritarian right-wing. China's government is extreme authoritarian left-wing. National Socialist is a reference to the violently anti-communist NSDAP (Nazi Party), which is generally considered a subset of fascism. They're all bad guys, but they're not the same and they don't work the same way. You can't really have cyberpunk in a Communist setting because cyberpunk is about extreme capitalism where corporations control the ruling party and China is all about the ruling party controlling corporations.

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              • #22
                Six of one, half a dozen of the other.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                  Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
                  No, they really are very different things.

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                  • #24
                    Not in any way that matters to the people living under them.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                      Not in any way that matters to the people living under them.
                      EDIT: Actually, I don't want to derail this thread with a pointless argument.
                      Last edited by Zeea; 11-15-2019, 05:44 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
                        The whole FSA is one of those elements of Aeon that I just don't like, at all, in no way. In fact its one of those elements that make me turn away from the setting while happily enjoying the mechanics. So basically I would totally approve of changes to it or fan made variances to it.
                        The original Aeon setting was about inversions. The folks on top now are on the bottom (or at least taken down multiple pegs) in the setting. South America is a manged biotech eco-paradise. Africa was called the Bright Continent (to contrast with "Darkest Africa"). Western Europe suffered a giant space station crashing down on it. And the United States became a full neo-feudalist/capitalist dystopia. The FSA is basically the future version of the setting of The Purge. Further focus on the FSA should very much include some kind of rip-off of that. Maybe for a very high fee, one can obtain certain specialized "hunting licenses" or have some area designated as a "quantum flux zone" that happens to have a lot poor, non-white people in it. Thus (obscenely wealthy and obscene) people can go into the area and slaughter the "tainted" in entertaining ways while wearing weird masks or whatever. I do wonder what this version of Alex Cassel will be like. The original one came off as the mutant lovechild of Barack Obama and Tony Stark.

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                        • #27
                          Moving over to Africa. My main fear is that they might go too generic. Just looking at the fact that all of North Africa is in their African Union is somewhat odd. The nations of North Africa tend to be proud of being part of MENA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MENA (the Middle East and North Africa). Both Tunisia and Morocco have made their desire to join the European Union clear. However, if it's stated the entry of the North African states is very recent (and also it cost the FSA some prestige) then many issues in this and other areas are cleared up.

                          Because I took coursework for my Masters in History on Africa (everybody had to take something big out of their main field) and took those courses from a man who spoke African Languages (about 14) fluently (he focused on oral histories) I'm very aware of just how vast and diverse Africa really is. I know I can't even list the main cultural areas.

                          With West Africa, please don't ignore the rich literary culture or the film industry. You might have someone in a vignette mention a film about Sudiata Keita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundiata_Keita (a major culture hero in West Africa, think of him as being like their King Arthur). Griots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griot may be considered cliche, but many of West Africa's pop stars and major literary artists are from Griot families or have trained with Griots. It would be a vital part of their society.

                          East Africa has had a multi millennia connection with India. They started the tales of Sinbad (Es Sindibad, the Indian). Their culture is musically rich (when I had a world music show on a college radio station back in the 1990's about two-thirds of the African music my listeners requested was from the Swahili Coast) and amazingly diverse and lively. It's also likely to be highly political.

                          Africa has more forms of marriage than the rest of the Earth combined. Many marriages are of course for love. But many types of marriage are only about social obligation or social standing (although many lovers make use of such forms to meet personal needs). Gender can be amazingly fluid. A person's gender in many cultural groups can be situational. If it is useful to your family or community for you to be a man in one situation and a woman in another, you can be expected to play the role accordingly as a matter of respect and loyalty. It's more likely to be something genetic women are required/asked to do, but there are cultures where men can be in the same boat.

                          Please, although a United Africa is an old Sci Fi thrope that goes back to the 1920's, and one I am personally fond of, please give good reasons for the United Africa in the Aeon setting existing. Maybe a group of Talents got together during the Aberrant Wars and decided to save Africa through unity and democracy. It would fit your setting and make logical sense of why a continent that has gotten kicked down so often is doing so well.

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                          • #28
                            In Europe...

                            Some questions to answer in the Atlas.

                            Has Ireland been conquered by the United Republics?

                            Why aren't Germany and Spain unifying internally given the threats around them?

                            How is Iceland doing?

                            How is Switzerland able to stay stable? How do they earn their living?

                            Is Malta also part of United Africa?

                            Is Provance coming together as it's own nation as it has many times in the past?

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                            • #29
                              ElfSpeaker, in Story Told overview on Aeon you mentioned that there are problems with portraying Center Europe, Russia or India in setting?


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                              • #30
                                I don't recall any problems with India. Central America, Russia, and Central Asia don't get any coverage. Ian has since clarified that Central America is divided between FSA and Sudamerica.

                                The other issue is that they just that they talk about Western Europe and Eastern Europe and ignore Central Europe. That's really only applicable in during the Cold War, and even then, there were major differences between Central and Eastern Europe. Having lived in Prague, it's one of those bugbears I adopted from the Czechs.


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