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What they need to clear up when they do a world atlas (Problems with Aeon's Earth.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Fair enough; though my earlier statement about my views of the FSA apply to The Purge, too (and also to The Handmaiden's Tale, and other such shows): I just don't find the stated motives of the chosen culprits to be believable.

    More to the point, I see such media as anti-conservative propaganda that plays up negative stereotypes instead of having any grounding in fact; and as I tend to identify with the groups that these movies and shows villainize, I tend to find them more offensive than entertaining. As a result, I generally don't watch that kind of media. As such, I don't find “the FSA is ‘the Purge with better tech’” to be much of a selling point.
    I never got into The Handmaid's Tale and The Purge seemed kind of absurd on its face. "All crime is legal, who are you gonna Purge tonight?" "Uh, nobody. I'm underwater on my mortgage. I'm gonna rob a bank and burn my house down for the insurance money 'cause all crime is legal."

    For me it's not about selling points. It's about finding ways to quickly connect players to a setting to which it really isn't intuitively easy to connect. I mean, think about it. This is a setting that kind of went from Indiana Jones to John Wick to the Marvel Cinematic Universe to The Expanse. That is some serious genre whiplash there. If I go through some droning exposition about the Aberrant War and the military-industrial complex and yadda-yadda, I'll get glazed eyes, snores and "Do we really have to play this?" from my players. But they can get the gist of the FSA from "The Purge with way higher tech." The Legion? "Remember Starship Troopers? Kind of like that." I can use familiar pop cultural references to connect my players with this setting AKA "The Expanse but with psychic stuff." And at necessary points I can drill down and give them details to clarify things if, say, one of them wants to play a member of the Legion who's from the FSA.
    Last edited by johntfs; 12-15-2019, 09:39 PM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Astromancer View Post
      On the subject of Russia. Putin is doing massive damage to Russia as it stands. Also, there is no way for the present Russian government to invest in it's people's health, education, and general welfare, without breaking the power of the Oligarchs. Putin is dependent on the Oligarchs to stay in office. Thus, although he knows he's destroying Russia, he can't both stay in office and do anything that might make things better, Thus, what kind of wreck is 22nd century Russia?

      China already wants to reclaim large areas Russia took from the Manchu Empire in the 17th, 18th, and 19th, centuries. China is already trying to get Russia to give them ports in the Arctic Ocean, much like Britain asked for Hong Kong. If China is as powerful as it is shown to be in this setting, and Russia is a rogue state in economic free fall, why doesn't China reclaim the vast territories Russia took from them in the past?

      Also, since Russia is pretty much post apocalyptic now, why are they still a state a century later? Are the people even descended from today's Russians?
      IIRC in 1ed Russia was ‘leasing’ a huge area of land to China, and was practically a Chinese puppet state.
      Last edited by macd21; 12-11-2019, 05:58 AM.

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      • #48
        edit: double post.

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        • #49
          Isn't the FSA from Aeon 1e? That was like, Clinton administration. Is there really that much difference between the 1e and 2e versions?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Zeea View Post
            Isn't the FSA from Aeon 1e? That was like, Clinton administration. Is there really that much difference between the 1e and 2e versions?
            I’ve heard it said that some people feel that 1e didn’t denounce fascism with enough conviction.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Jetstream View Post

              I’ve heard it said that some people feel that 1e didn’t denounce fascism with enough conviction.
              The first "full" adventure in 1e Trinity came in Hidden Agendas with "The Last Gasp." The premise of that adventure has the PCs lured into a trap by the FSA so they can be studied (and dissected later) like lab rats. America Offline (does anyone even remember AOL well enough to get that reference anymore?) gave a general overview of life in the FSA, which boiled down to "sux unless you're really rich" and "really hostile to Psions" (and the PCs are expected to be Psions).

              Beyond that the main takeaway in terms of the FSA is its irrelevance to the main story line in terms of official adventures. The PCs visit the FSA during the "Signals and Flares" adventure in the second Descent into Darkness adventure book, Passage Through Shadow. However, on that occasion they're guided/protected/put-on-leashes by Proxy Alex Cassel, so being in the FSA doesn't matter that match.

              I haven't looked too closely into the current take on the FSA, but I kind of liked how 1e treated them. They're bad people. But they're also a bunch that's generally irrelevant to the current state of humanity and growing more so by the year/month/week. Figure the worst fate for a fascist is to be ignored as irrelevant.
              Last edited by johntfs; 12-15-2019, 10:13 PM.

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              • #52
                Thinking on ways of making the FSA anti Africa policy less pointless I came up with "What if there was a reason, wrong, but a reason, for the FSA's paranoia?" This is what I came up with.

                Have several small Caribbean Island nations, fearful of being caught between the FSA and Latin America in an endless tug of war, and fearful of conquest by the FSA, join the UAN. Much like the Baltic States and most of the old Wasaw Pact nations joined NATO to protect their independence. Russia is still bitter and hostile over that. Although Putin is highly intelligent and fairly shrewd, he often acts in a stupidly evil way over what he sees as an insult and threat to Mother Russia (and his personal power and authority) and can't allow himself to see why those nations joined NATO out of fear. In the same way the FSA could refuse to see/understand the fears of those nations that joined the UAN.

                Note: Norca hates those nations joining the UAN as well. But they see it freaking out the FSA and thus causing the FSA trouble. So they let it slide and enjoy the show.

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                • #53
                  More than once I questioned, WHY ANYONE MIGRATES TO FSA? its like nowadays migrating to Congo or North Korea (nothing against those countries, but all the wars and the dictators... not a good place to live). Anyone stupid enough to move to FSA would be treated as less than a person, why would they stay there?

                  Europe is destroyed? Sure, but Australia would receive them smiling, Sudamerica and Africa would give them on a better condition (not great, but still better), the Extra Solar Colonies would be happy to have more fresh meat, Oceania would also need some people to gain political representation in general. Why FSA?


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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                    More than once I questioned, WHY ANYONE MIGRATES TO FSA? its like nowadays migrating to Congo or North Korea (nothing against those countries, but all the wars and the dictators... not a good place to live). Anyone stupid enough to move to FSA would be treated as less than a person, why would they stay there?

                    Europe is destroyed? Sure, but Australia would receive them smiling, Sudamerica and Africa would give them on a better condition (not great, but still better), the Extra Solar Colonies would be happy to have more fresh meat, Oceania would also need some people to gain political representation in general. Why FSA?
                    It's as if they assume that immigration to America is a mystical force. During the Great Depression the USA had out migration, we lost more than we took in ( we also illegally kicked some out, but that's a different story). And that period of population loss was when we were an isolationist nation behind oceanic moats, something that appealed to those trying not to be involved in Europe's ongoing miseries. You're totally right, Mateus Luz, no one would immigrate to the FSA. The only point is to have immigrants to oppress.

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                    • #55
                      Random ones:

                      Iran is not Persia
                      Why the hell did Iran become Persia. When most countries in the game now use endonyms, why did it revert? This seems to me something like a swtich for its own sake bourne out of when the gamew as originally written, not realizing that Persia was the exonym unitl the 20th Century. It never was Persia internally I don't see that changing in the future.

                      The UAN is Not Really Africa
                      The UAN kind of weirds me out. Mostly in that it's kind of to me in an attempt to create a "Diverse unified Africa" actually more "Squish everyhting remotely sub-Saharan African into one place regardless of realism." Like, how did Yorobun, to my understanding a non-porstetyzing religion mostly practiced by a particular ethnic group in West Africa, somehow oustrip Christianity, the largest estimated religion in Africa and fastest growing well into the Nova Age probably, to being reduced below Islam?

                      Why is Swahili, a langauge mostly on the East Coast, used instead of actual langua francas used on the continent (The potential East African Federation uses English, Francophone Africa has monetary unions and trade unions, etc.) How does Egypt, Sudan, and the Maghreb fit into the reigon culturally? Having read Aeon the first time with 2e, something about the UAN feels to me something bore out of late 20th Century Pan-Africanist idealism which picks out the stuff foreigners (including some Americans) found intersting and painting as soemthing you can apply to the second largest continent and over a billion people. I think some better idea of how it is administered, and how federalized it is would do a good job at this to me. Like, did the EAF happen in Aeon? How does the fact that countires stuck to their colonial borders and languages in late 20th Century and through the 21st affect it? Does it have sub-regions that look like the old ECOWAS or South Africa? How do tradtionally Arab states work? Is the UAN an exansion of the African Union or soemthing else? Lots of things to me need to be talked on.

                      Like, a real world fact is that in the real world, one of the biggest proponents of the African Union becoming a United States of Africa was Muammar Gaddafi. It is something not really popular with some nationalist movements, and some economic interests on the continent today. Things can change as we see in Europe, but I think there needs to be a lot more done to justify this thing since Africa is more diverse than I think the UAF is described as. To me, Yoruban becoming dominant on the continent at the same time Swahili becomes the international langauge feels like Nahuatl becoming the biggest religion in the UAN while at the same time French takes over.

                      Sudoamerica as a Whole
                      I'm still not clear what this like, is in context of the of the setting. If it's just a description of the continent, but ht countries remain independent, not sure. If it is more unified, how does the non-Spanish speaking countries, especially Brazil, fit into things? Like, as a region it is fine, but I don't really see what is gained by lumping things together liek that. Eastern Europe didn't get its own special endonym but I get a sense Brazil and Colombia are as much one entity as Russia and Turkey.

                      Chile isn't Mapuche
                      This feels a bit like the above two but on a smaller scale. The Mapuche Nation becoming independent or a thing in itself i can see. But the implication I got is that Chile no longer exists and that what was Chile is synonymous wiht Mapuche. Like, just looking at maps this isn't how it like...works. Mapuche are not as mall part of the population (over a million in a country of 18 million), but it kind of erases the range of diversity also in the country if we assume they just took over entirely. So some clarification on like...waht is Chile now would not hurt.

                      FSA Stuff
                      Kind of agree that the FSA kind of is old hat. Like, I don't even mine the FSA being a right wing authoritarian state. I think the big issues is how, and why don't work out fo rme. And also why they didn't expand just beyond the modern day USMCA zone. Like, why didn't they kick the commies out of Cuba or invade Central America. The entire motivation to conquer Mexico doesn't sit right unless it is part of genral Offensive Monroe Doctrine Filllibustering Reborn that I gather, and that would probably result in bad times for Cuba and Panama. So kind of curious what made them stop when they got to Yukatan.

                      I think a big thing too is that it uses fascism a bit too loosely. Like, I'm one to straight-up say that fascists are authoritarian, but not all authoritarians are fascist. I wouldn't call say, China or Soviet Russia fascist, but I would call them authoritarian. And to me, the FSA would be handled as I think the generally more negative stuff of the modern PRC look like (ie, authoritarian captialist) rather than the weird super MIC-Captailst that it is in the default setting. I think how it's organized wouldn't hurt either. Did all the provinces of Canada and Mexico's states become states? Is it administere din a way that at all looks like the three countries it gobbled-up?

                      Nippon is Weird
                      I guess this is to me, but Nippon feels very much like Japan was perceived in the early and late 90s, withotu accoutning for 1) The bubble and stagflation and 2) Japan despite being hyper-modernist also likes at least having its nice nature spots. The Nippon Archology feels odd to me, but I guess the Aberrant Age effed things up a bit. I just would expect way more parks and pretty historical monuments in it instead of it being a something out of a Tsutomo Nihei manga.

                      Bharati Commonwealth is...Awkward
                      The current upswing of Hindu nationalism in India kind of makes me think that there needs to be some thought put on on like, what the Bharati Commonwealth even is. Something I saw suggested I don't mind is that before it forms, probably Pakistan and India have to have dissolved. Like, in my mind rather than it being the modern countries its territory comprises, I could see like....Tamil, Sikhistan, Rajastan, and such having become thier own things. Basically rather than the modern states squished togehter, the constituate staes fell apart and came back together. When there's not one "India" but half a dozen things that use to be India that dont' form a bloc, then I think the whole setup becomes more plausable to me.

                      China and the CARs
                      I think to make the CARs more believeable the whole Bhoddisatva thing needs to be emphasized more. China as it is going today makes a lot of the China in Aeon feel pretty implausable, but if it were in context of "We dont' know how this work due to us being stuck with Aberrant inventions" I think some of it works otu better. That said, the status of Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Malaysia probably could use some more detailing. And why some coutnries are in the CAR sphere and not say, tried to join Australlia or the Bharati Commonwealth.

                      Israel-Palestine is Pretty Awkward Too
                      Just saying based on recent events, I kind of wonder how much it is a good idea to spend a lot of tiem on this. But the current One State well, state, in context of recent ehadlines is pretty awkward to me. And I wonder how far one can go with "Aberrant War makes strange bedfellows' in this area.

                      Antarctica
                      Why isn't this really talked about at all? Kind of cuirous what is going on there. Seems like a good spot for countries to fight over or for folks to have setup colonies or a lot of resoruces or archologies or whatever. Is it just not very useful due to being far away I guess? Inquirng minds must know.
                      Last edited by Blaque; 02-13-2020, 09:03 PM.


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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                        Random ones:

                        *SNIP*
                        The simplest answer to your question beyond "Chill out, it's just a game setting" is "Shit happens over time."

                        Let's say that you were born in the USA in 1870. How much of what happened by 1970 would you have predicted? Airplanes. WWI and WWII. The atomic bomb. Men landing on the fucking Moon and bringing rocks back.

                        Aeon is setting a little over a hundred years from now. And it takes place on an Earth where stuff like Psionics, Quantum Superpowers and Talents/Movie Action folks are real things.

                        You mentioned Russia. I recall the Union of Soviet Socialistic Republics and never expected to live to see it come apart. There would either be a world-ending nuclear apocalypse or a statemate between the USA and USSR that would continue well into the future. And the whole enterprise collapsed in the early 90s. And while Russia under Putin isn't exactly a nice place, it's not like the Cold War era of "the missiles are flying." Call that my attitude circa 1985 and less than 10 years later the USSR as a political entity, had ceased to exist. That's what happened in ten years? And you're questioning stuff that's over a hundred years away? In a world with "magic superpowers?"

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                        • #57
                          I mean, this is a thread quesitoning how the nations got to where they are and how they got that way. I have genuine interest in geopolitics and have an emphasis on that in some of the research I've done. So a lot of stuff stood out. And in trying to make the setting more believeable some things need addressed basically.

                          Note the only one I think I'm super hostile on is Iran to Persia. Since that one sort of just straight-up break sthe exonym to endonym pattern for the rest of the setting and seems built on if anything kind of outright ignorance from the 90s.


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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                            I mean, this is a thread quesitoning how the nations got to where they are and how they got that way. I have genuine interest in geopolitics and have an emphasis on that in some of the research I've done. So a lot of stuff stood out. And in trying to make the setting more believeable some things need addressed basically.

                            Note the only one I think I'm super hostile on is Iran to Persia. Since that one sort of just straight-up break sthe exonym to endonym pattern for the rest of the setting and seems built on if anything kind of outright ignorance from the 90s.
                            I admire your interest in geopolitics, heck, my masters, which I never got to use professionally, is in history. Like you I find much of the setting strange in dull unimaginative ways. I found the richness and depth of your statements refreshing.

                            Thank you for posting to my thread.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                              I mean, this is a thread quesitoning how the nations got to where they are and how they got that way. I have genuine interest in geopolitics and have an emphasis on that in some of the research I've done. So a lot of stuff stood out. And in trying to make the setting more believeable some things need addressed basically.

                              Note the only one I think I'm super hostile on is Iran to Persia. Since that one sort of just straight-up break sthe exonym to endonym pattern for the rest of the setting and seems built on if anything kind of outright ignorance from the 90s.
                              Figure at least some of those questions will get answers when the Terra Firma book comes out... eventually. I think I'm with you on the Persia/Iran thing. Apparently "Iran" actually Farsi for "Persia."

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by johntfs View Post

                                Figure at least some of those questions will get answers when the Terra Firma book comes out... eventually. I think I'm with you on the Persia/Iran thing. Apparently "Iran" actually Farsi for "Persia."
                                That’s exactly the anoying point, we call Nippon (tha japanese for Japan) and call Persia (the non local name for Iran). Why? If it was up to me, I would say that as religion lost some power and the government would want to be more inclusive with the invaded countries, they changed to a more “neutral” or “friendly”, but the descriptions says the name was changed before the reduction on religion in politics. So... weird...

                                Also, not sure if Iran or Iraq that dominated the others and become Persia “After Iran expanded into Turkmenistan and the still-habitable portions of Iran, “ (Aeon, page 68). My bet is Iran invaded the remaining of Iraq as half or Iraq is in the wastelands.


                                The proper answer to “Hello There” is, obviously, “General Kenobi”.
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