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Thoughts on integrating Scion and Trinity

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  • Thoughts on integrating Scion and Trinity

    I'm considering pulling stuff from Scion into my Trinity game. Has anyone else tried this and if so, what where the results? Just a cursory look at the character creation system puts me in the mind of them being near Nova level at least. Really I don't think I'll bring Scion stuff in straight up, but Scions/Titans would be pretty useful doubles for Extants.

  • #2
    I'd say Origin level characters are around Talents in power, and Hero is more in the psion level with more versatility. Although, a proxy level psion is probably stronger than most Heroes. Scion: Hero doesn't use the Scale system as much as Aberrant does. So, give yourself Scale 2 or higher, and you'll be well over a Hero in whatever area you have that Scale in.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Florin View Post
      I'd say Origin level characters are around Talents in power, and Hero is more in the psion level with more versatility. Although, a proxy level psion is probably stronger than most Heroes. Scion: Hero doesn't use the Scale system as much as Aberrant does. So, give yourself Scale 2 or higher, and you'll be well over a Hero in whatever area you have that Scale in.
      You are grossly underestimating Talents. Talents are Tier 2 characters on par with Psions, Psiads, and Superiors. Their incredible power just plays out more extra diagetically, but Origin level Scions don’t come close to the full might of Dramatic Editing and the ability to seize emergency Scale at will.


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      • #4
        The aesthetics and settings are very different.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

          You are grossly underestimating Talents. Talents are Tier 2 characters on par with Psions, Psiads, and Superiors. Their incredible power just plays out more extra diagetically, but Origin level Scions don’t come close to the full might of Dramatic Editing and the ability to seize emergency Scale at will.
          At base character creation, Scions hold the advantage with Skills. An Origin Scion and a Hero Scion each get 23 dots to spend in skills. However, they don't get anything for Edges because edges aren't really a thing in Scion. So, figure Trinity-Scions would need to share the base character creation process of everyone else in terms of Paths, Attributes, Skills and Edges. Origin Scions then get one Knack and then either 4 points of Birthrights or two more Knacks (but can only have one active at any given time). By comparison, Talents get four Gifts as well as a point of Inspiration and three points to develop their Facets.

          Heroes, meanwhile, get up to 5 Heroic Knacks (or a mixture of Heroic and more potent Immortal Knacks), and get 7 points of Birthrights (which resemble some Edges but have other powers) and also get two Boons, which are pretty blatant supernatural powers.

          In terms of Trinity, I'd call Origin Scions about Tier 1.5 and Hero Scions Tier 2.5

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          • #6
            Depends on how you are expecting to "pull stuff" from Scion.

            Using some of the powers as inspiration for new Gifts or Enhanced Edges? Should be easy.

            Porting over Scions wholesale as a PC type? That's a pretty tall order. Even though there is a unified underlying system, the approaches the games take to their mechanics function on very different assumptions. There's a bit of overlap when it comes to Knacks with Edges and Gifts. There's also a very different mentality when it comes to the way Legend is used and regained against how the other various power stats go in TC.

            Dunno if you are rpg.net averse, but there was a recent thread over there that explored this.

            https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?thre...rinity.851399/


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            • #7
              A few details I would change to get a cross over done (my approach is bringing Scion to TC).

              I would use the TC char creation for Scions, it means everybody have Edges.

              Callings and Knacks would become a Scion only trait, as they gain legend they gain their play is in fate game, what it represented by Callings. They keep edges and all, but the Callings and Knacks get more important to a Scion than the rest.

              Scion Purviews are very opened, it means lot of versatility, while most of the powers in TC are pretty straight forward. I would keep it that way, the rise of legend is much limited by the entire group and their deeds, what would compensate the fast pace TC characters can rise if they focus on a trait. I know novas can do Power stunts and all, but scions are basically walking sources of power stunts.

              Last but not Least, Scion TC game is meant to be short. As it was pointed, Scions grow from mortal to gods, while TC characters stop somewhere. A Psion/Scion x-over bust end by the time they rise to Demigods, otherwise the power gap will be too much, the same way a Nova/Scion must start when the Scions are closer to Demigods and will end with a bunch of gods and monsters.

              There is also the Relic/ Super Science correlation, but it’s probably the fastest to solve, I just didn’t think about it... not enough at least.
              Last edited by Mateus Luz; 11-26-2019, 04:55 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                You are grossly underestimating Talents. Talents are Tier 2 characters on par with Psions, Psiads, and Superiors. Their incredible power just plays out more extra diagetically, but Origin level Scions don’t come close to the full might of Dramatic Editing and the ability to seize emergency Scale at will.
                True. I was thinking more of how Talents and Origin level Scions have kind of similar feelings to their powers. Their powers are more generally more subtle than heroes/psions/novas.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Florin View Post

                  True. I was thinking more of how Talents and Origin level Scions have kind of similar feelings to their powers. Their powers are more generally more subtle than heroes/psions/novas.
                  I'm just getting my feet wet learning the Scion system. One interesting things about Heroes and Demigods/Gods is that their more powerful abilities cannot be purchased with XP. They can buy Knacks, Heroic and Immortal with XP. They can also buy Birthrights (creatures, followers, guides and relics) with XP. Apparently Legend (which powers their stuff, Callings, Purviews and Boons (higher powered abilities) cannot be gained through XP and must be earned another way.

                  If I let Scions be PCs, I'll probably tweak the template a bit to make them fit into the base Tier II levels of other Aeon and Core PCs. Birthrights will become Edges (Pets/Creatures will be a version of the Old Trinity Allies Merit; Followers will be Followers; Guides will be Mentors and Relics will be Artifacts of a slightly different flavor).

                  One thing I'll also do is reduce certain restrictions. Anybody can buy Edges unless they are specifically restricted to a specific Path or character type. Only Psions can buy their version of Enhanced Mode. Only Novas can buy Dormancy. Anybody can buy and use Artifacts and Enhanced Edges. They can't alter, repair or potentially even recharge said Artifacts, but they can use them assuming they're relatively general purpose (A "norm" could use a gun that fires Quantum Bolts but couldn't use a helmet that enhances Telepathy because he wouldn't have Telepathy). Do we assume that every head of state or CEO of a major corporation is a Talent, Nova or Psion/Psiad? As for Artifacts, restricted them to Novas and Psi-types closes a lot of story space. How many stories begin with the idea of a normal human person finding some weird thingie that empowers them and changes their lives for better or worse? You're telling me I can't run Laserblast in my game because the twerp picking about the weird quantum gun would need to start as a Nova? Screw that. "Muggles" should be just as viable as threats/dangers as powered characters. I remember from the campaign where I played the low-powered Nova that one of the most powerful characters in the game was a Neutral normal human out of Japan. He'd bought Status links to the government and a high Wealth. So, even though he had no psionic, quantum or knacks, he was cybered up the ass to the point that he almost functioned as a Biokinetic and Electrokinetic. He was kind of the poster boy for that bit from Justice League of "What's your superpower?" "I'm rich."

                  I'm thinking of allowing Heroic Mundanes in as Tier II characters. Basically they'd go through Steps 1-4 and 6, skipping the powered template thing. After Step 6 they'd get 50 XP to buy further skills, Attributes and Edges. Should they later wish to become Inspired/Powered, they can, but they'd need to accumulate sufficient XP to pay for their empowerment as though they were being initially created as that type (figure something like 60-75 XP). They could still spend other XP, but they'd need to save a lot of it for their eventual transformation.
                  Last edited by johntfs; 11-26-2019, 01:18 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Beyond the issues of power balance and pacing, are there any nuts-and-bolts differences (i.e., dramatic systems/underlying game engine) between the two games? I haven't done a literal side-by-side comparison with both books open in front of me, but the system looks very similar.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
                      Beyond the issues of power balance and pacing, are there any nuts-and-bolts differences (i.e., dramatic systems/underlying game engine) between the two games? I haven't done a literal side-by-side comparison with both books open in front of me, but the system looks very similar.
                      There are more than a few:
                      Scion paths have no dots, Trinity does. It impact the way you deal with contacts.
                      On character creation paths have a much bigger impact on Scion, almost all the skill dots are locked on the paths, while Trinity is more opened.
                      The total Skill and attributes dots from character creation are different.
                      The way you evolve in Scion and in Trinity is different, Scion you use your XP for “mortal stuff” and gain real power from the Legend, that require group effort to raise, in Trinity you use XP for everything.
                      Scion characters have a small number of Knacks, linked to their Callings. trinity characters have no Callings and have a large number of edges. The Knacks are in a certain way powerful edges, but they evolve different.
                      the number of Injury box are different (the total is the same, but Bruised and Injured have different numbers)
                      Many weapon and armor tags work different.
                      The types of damage are different.

                      That’s what come to mind now. Probably there are more.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post

                        There are more than a few:
                        Scion paths have no dots, Trinity does. It impact the way you deal with contacts.
                        On character creation paths have a much bigger impact on Scion, almost all the skill dots are locked on the paths, while Trinity is more opened.
                        The total Skill and attributes dots from character creation are different.
                        The way you evolve in Scion and in Trinity is different, Scion you use your XP for “mortal stuff” and gain real power from the Legend, that require group effort to raise, in Trinity you use XP for everything.
                        Scion characters have a small number of Knacks, linked to their Callings. trinity characters have no Callings and have a large number of edges. The Knacks are in a certain way powerful edges, but they evolve different.
                        the number of Injury box are different (the total is the same, but Bruised and Injured have different numbers)
                        Many weapon and armor tags work different.
                        The types of damage are different.

                        That’s what come to mind now. Probably there are more.

                        While the Knacks can be "powerful Edges" they are supernatural/powered in nature. Scion is the older version of the Storypath system and it's less tethered to "the real world." That said, with a little work, it wouldn't be too hard to convert Scion to Trinity. Birthrights would be Artifacts, of a sort. Edges would work normally. Figure Origin and Hero Scions would be Tier II, while Demigod and God would be Tier III and Tier IV respectively.

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                        • #13
                          I would absolutely take the different skill for each range band chart from Scion

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by werlynn View Post
                            I would absolutely take the different skill for each range band chart from Scion
                            It’s the same skill but different Attributes. And it was the same for Trinity, except it was taken away to avoid confusion. I think it is one of the great ideas in Storypath, not only for tang band changes, but for some different weapons different attributes can be used.

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                            • #15
                              My bad. Yeah I love it. It assumes if you’re in close you’re wrestling with the gun, but if you’re medium range then you’re out-thinking a moving target. It makes a gunslinger or sniper more diverse than a one-attribute pony.

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