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Detecting Superios

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  • #16
    Yeah it does make sense that needs to be the case in setting for Superiors to be the degree of secret they are, presented as exceptional baselines enhanced by cybernetics.


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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bunyip View Post

      They’re not. The Nakamura process sends them down a very controlled pre ‘first step’ of a quantum-like pathway before terminating it.

      I look at them like the Stalwarts of 1E. You can see how they might be the first evolutionary steps of novas, but powered by Inspiration. There’s no quantum here.
      I need to re-read that section. Again. I pretty much looked at that as artificial Talents given that the two results of the Nakamura process were either a Superior or a "failure" which was in truth a Talent.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by johntfs View Post

        I need to re-read that section. Again. I pretty much looked at that as artificial Talents given that the two results of the Nakamura process were either a Superior or a "failure" which was in truth a Talent.
        Their power set is clearly different from that of Talents.


        Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Bunyip View Post

          They’re not. The Nakamura process sends them down a very controlled pre ‘first step’ of a quantum-like pathway before terminating it.

          I look at them like the Stalwarts of 1E. You can see how they might be the first evolutionary steps of novas, but powered by Inspiration. There’s no quantum here.
          And now it looks like my game will have a few sessions powered by the fact the Doyen are going to want to figure out what the heck is going on with Superiors.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Bunyip View Post

            Their power set is clearly different from that of Talents.
            That's true and I just re-read that section from Aeon Aexpansion:

            Kayoko was able to perfect her process. It is effective on 83% of the people who undergo it. The remaining 17% no longer have psionic or nova potential
            but aren’t quite baseline either.
            For my part I took that to mean that they'd become Talents. If that's not true, then what have they become - at least in terms of the game?

            Originally posted by Florin View Post

            And now it looks like my game will have a few sessions powered by the fact the Doyen are going to want to figure out what the heck is going on with Superiors.
            It's likely that the Doyen don't know (or care) that Superiors exist. Nippon is both paranoid and Psi-hostile. They completely reject biotech as "alien technology." It's quite possible that the Doyen have dismissed Nippon as irrelevant.

            On the other hand, the Nippon retrovirus would give them an excellent way to "neuter" potential Novas prior to eruption. Especially if they used advanced biotech and/or Vitakinetic techniques to make it highly communicable.
            Last edited by johntfs; 01-27-2020, 02:02 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by johntfs View Post

              It's likely that the Doyen don't know (or care) that Superiors exist. Nippon is both paranoid and Psi-hostile. They completely reject biotech as "alien technology." It's quite possible that the Doyen have dismissed Nippon as irrelevant.

              On the other hand, the Nippon retrovirus would give them an excellent way to "neuter" potential Novas prior to eruption. Especially if they used advanced biotech and/or Vitakinetic techniques to make it highly communicable.
              Nippon was harboring low-Transcendence novas for awhile. I think that combined with Nippon's hostility towards psi-users is probably enough to make the Doyen very curious about Nippon. The Doyen finding out about the retrovirus is a really good point. That has the potential to blow up in a big way.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by johntfs View Post

                That's true and I just re-read that section from Aeon Aexpansion:



                For my part I took that to mean that they'd become Talents. If that's not true, then what have they become - at least in terms of the game?
                The 17% are those who the exposure to the given treatment resulted in Talent Inspiration INSTEAD of what the Nakamura Process is designed to do. That doesn’t mean Superiors are derived from Talents. SK’s Psi wave resulted in Psiad activation, Latent Psions, and Talent Inspirations - it doesn’t mean Talents are psychomorphs, just that some Talents were inspired by that event. Same thing.

                As to where they come from, Superiors are artificial Stalwarts (pre-Nova eximorphs) created from the pool of the population with the potential to become Novas or Psi-active. I don’t know what other info you are asking for.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Florin View Post

                  Nippon was harboring low-Transcendence novas for awhile. I think that combined with Nippon's hostility towards psi-users is probably enough to make the Doyen very curious about Nippon. The Doyen finding out about the retrovirus is a really good point. That has the potential to blow up in a big way.
                  When you get right down do it who says that Nippon isn't still harboring them?

                  Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                  The 17% are those who the exposure to the given treatment resulted in Talent Inspiration INSTEAD of what the Nakamura Process is designed to do. That doesn’t mean Superiors are derived from Talents. SK’s Psi wave resulted in Psiad activation, Latent Psions, and Talent Inspirations - it doesn’t mean Talents are psychomorphs, just that some Talents were inspired by that event. Same thing.

                  As to where they come from, Superiors are artificial Stalwarts (pre-Nova eximorphs) created from the pool of the population with the potential to become Novas or Psi-active. I don’t know what other info you are asking for.

                  I think you've missed the point of my question. I don't care about the Superiors. They're a reproducible known quantity - artificial Stalwarts of such low Quantum that they still count as having a Psi of 1. They can even use Biotech. Most won't, but they could.

                  My question was about the 17%. Aeon Aexpansion never flat-out states that they become Talents, just something other than baseline in some way. Maybe they do become Talents, but if they don't, what do they become? That was the info for which I was asking.

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                  • #24
                    To be fair, the direct support in the text for Superiors being artificial Stalwarts is a single, somewhat ambiguous line:
                    These stalwart individuals are artificially created Inspired characters.

                    Æon Æxpansion p.61
                    There's also some indirect support such as:
                    Superiorspossess enhanced control over their own bodies, minds, and the faces they present to the world, unlike Talents who twist luck and inspiration to their benefit or psions who manipulate elements of the world with their minds.

                    Æon Æxpansion p.61
                    The main support for Superiors being artificially created Stalwarts (or at least Stalwart-like) comes directly from the developers, who have expressly stated that Superiors are in fact Stalwart-like. They've made a point to say that Superiors and Stalwarts aren't the same thing; but have clarified that they say this mainly so that the guys writing TC:A! don't have to feel obliged to write Stalwarts in a way that's fully consistent with Superiors. That is, it's not saying that Superiors and Stalwarts are fundamentally different kinds of things; it's just saying that TC:A!'s devs don't have their hands tied.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by johntfs View Post

                      When you get right down do it who says that Nippon isn't still harboring them?




                      I think you've missed the point of my question. I don't care about the Superiors. They're a reproducible known quantity - artificial Stalwarts of such low Quantum that they still count as having a Psi of 1. They can even use Biotech. Most won't, but they could.

                      My question was about the 17%. Aeon Aexpansion never flat-out states that they become Talents, just something other than baseline in some way. Maybe they do become Talents, but if they don't, what do they become? That was the info for which I was asking.
                      They’re explicitly stated in the Aeon Core setting secrets chapter to be Talents.


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by johntfs View Post
                        My question was about the 17%. Aeon Aexpansion never flat-out states that they become Talents, just something other than baseline in some way. Maybe they do become Talents, but if they don't, what do they become? That was the info for which I was asking.
                        Without snark, whatever you want them to be for your game. That’s the point of the Trinity Continuum - to leave open options for people to run with.


                        Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Bunyip View Post

                          Without snark, whatever you want them to be for your game. That’s the point of the Trinity Continuum - to leave open options for people to run with.
                          Some cognitive dissonance because a lot of the gameline seems to constrain things to Flux,Noetics and Quantum. :P

                          And hammering out the narrow three options for the universe seems somewhat unnecessary in my opinion, but it does certainly give guidance and I guess tone.


                          It is a time for great deeds!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                            Originally posted by Bunyip View Post

                            Without snark, whatever you want them to be for your game. That’s the point of the Trinity Continuum - to leave open options for people to run with.

                            Some cognitive dissonance because a lot of the gameline seems to constrain things to Flux,Noetics and Quantum. :P

                            And hammering out the narrow three options for the universe seems somewhat unnecessary in my opinion, but it does certainly give guidance and I guess tone.
                            As glamourweaver noted, the 17% who go through the Nakamura process but fail to become Superior instead become Talents.

                            Presumably the "proto-Inspired," those with the potential for Psi, Quantum or Flux have a... "Y factor" (three energies, three branches, so, "Y"). Depending on the era, some branches are more likely to express themselves than others. Psi is more likely in the Aeon age, Quantum during the time of Aberrant. Since Quantum and Psi are opposed energies and Flux is unopposed, in any given era Flux is either the most common Inspiration or the second most common assuming a time with either Psi or Quantum being dominant. The Noppon retrovirus closes off receptors for Psi and Quantum but has no known effect for Flux.

                            Incidentally, may I recommend that the terms for the accumulation of Transcendence energies in Novas be changed? Call it Twist or something, because referring to it as flux is just confusing at this point.

                            Continuing, the Nakamura process is effectively designed to trigger not so much an eruption as a directed Quantum "magma flow." Superiors' powers seem like lesser versions of Mega-Edges for Novas. So a possible Superior is pushed through the process to manifest Inspiration by becoming either a Superior or, failing that, the push inspires a Talent.

                            And let's consider that the options for Flux, Psi and Quantum aren't really all that narrow. Superiors are effectively a variant of Novas. Theoretically, since they've already gone part way, a secondary process/effect could be developed that pushes Superiors all the way to becoming full Novas. Consider that Novas do not generate Quantum. They channel Quantum already present. Should they run out of "Quantum points" they've simply pushed their bodies beyond their normal ability to channel Quantum. Presumably there's nothing to prevent the creation of an Artifact that channels/stores Quantum in the same way that a Nova does. In which case a lot of Q-tech suddenly goes back on the table for use by others.

                            For that matter Psions and Psaids channel sub-quantum energy the same way. Is there anything that prevents the creation of super-scientific biotech that can also do this? Add that to the Aeon Aexpansion idea of people who could potentially use Psi powers but can't store/channel the energy to power them. Put together that kind of biotech and suddenly you have "Psiperiors."

                            As for Flux, Mateus Luz's "Fists of Flux" supplement presents a more advanced take on how to wield Flux "Techniques" in a Wuxia-martials way. Still Flux is extradimensional energy from universe that could easily have differering physical laws. There's no reason you couldn't potentially have Flux-priests, Flux-sorcerers, etc simply by shifting the trappings on various Techniques.

                            Beyond that, the Aberrant system creates multiple ways to "file the serial numbers off of" Quantum abilities and drop in Super-Cybernetics or Super-genetics or Super-aliens. The skies, none of the skies, are a limit any more.





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                            • #29
                              Its still the limit... it still has to be one of these three, and skirting it can get pretty convoluted.

                              But I still have proposed the filing the serial numbers off approach myself.


                              It is a time for great deeds!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                                Its still the limit... it still has to be one of these three, and skirting it can get pretty convoluted.

                                But I still have proposed the filing the serial numbers off approach myself.
                                It only has to be one of the three is you decide that. And even if it is one of the three, there's plenty of stuff you can do.

                                So... Superiors are a thing. Also, Nippon kept a couple-three dozen low Transference Novas after they withdrew from the world.

                                So, what if Superior were a version of Q-tech that had been "dumbed-down" to allow it to be used by baselines?

                                Meanwhile, the Novas still have the original Nano-Enhancement which they can use to transform certain compatible Baselines into something akin to Novas. Call them "Cybs."

                                So, instead of Quantum they have Tek. They higher their Tek the better they can channel their power. Instead of Transcendence that have Meck. The higher their Meck, the more of their bodies have been repaced by nanities. Instead of Flux, they have Surge, a kind of feedback that subtly alters and damages their bodies. Surge can be dealt with by Powering Down (pretty much doing the same things Novas do to handle Flux). Too much Flux and they gain a permanent point of Meck. If Meck reaches 10 the human guiding consciousness is lost and the nanities dissolve the former body. Meanwhile, Cybs with a high Meck develop Glitches (Transformations) and suffer intense difficulty relating to non-Cybs. Cybs are Tier III characters.

                                And that's a new character type that's basically just an older character type with the labels changed.

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