Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Alternatives for Defense?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Alternatives for Defense?

    I'm curious to know if everyone is satisfied with the rules for Defense or if there are alternatives and homebrews out there. Maybe I'm too clingy to Chronicles of Darkness but I have a hard time accepting that defensive capability is divorced from the character's Athletics, Close Combat and Dexterity. To my mind, a character with average Resolve, Stamina and Composure but extremely high Close Combat skill should still be difficult to hurt. Can anybody convince me that the RAW way of doing it is actually better or has anybody made alternatives?
    Last edited by Aristarkos; 04-20-2020, 08:27 AM.

  • #2
    Storypath requires a bit of mind shift when coming from CoD. The first thing to remember is you are not avoiding injuries. You're avoiding the effects of injuries, which are modeled with Injury Conditions. So, using Stamina to physically endure any injuries, using Resolve to ignore the pain of injuries, and Composure to react properly despite your injuries is what is important. Someone with low Close Combat, low Dexterity, and high Stamina is going to get hit a lot, they're just going to shrug it off. While, someone with high Close Combat, high Dexterity, and low resistance stats may only get hit once, but they're going to suffer from it.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've only played for about five sessions but I don't have a problem with the system. Also, there are a few Edges that help with defense that are quite appropriate for close combatants, such as Precise Martial Arts and Armor Expert. You could make a new edge based on Deflection Expert that gives enhancement to defensive actions in close combat.

      Comment


      • #4
        The skills in Storypath are more about generic knowledge about the subject, even specialities are more about generic knowledge about a more specific subject, while Edges are more about specific practical uses.

        For example, in CoD a Martial Artist will have 5 dots in Brawl and probably a Merit related to martial arts (I don’t have a list, to choose one, sorry), while in Storypath we could keep him with 3 dots in Close combat as many dots in edges related to martial arts as possible.

        Going back to defense: One good source of defense in Storypath is the precise Martial Arts, that gives you a free dodge if you increase the difficulty of any attack in that turn, and 2 soft armor and +2 on the difficulty to grapple you. This Edge requires Dexterity, so Dexterity add a bit to defense if you know how.

        Now on Dexterity, Florin used an example I would not for a simple reason, the capacity of standing damage is already in the game in the form of additional Injury Boxes. I agree in certain degree on Dexterity being used to dodge, while Stamina just increase toughness, but I use Stamina for a only reason, it’s extremely rare to dodge punches and attacks as we see in movies. Boxers don’t dodge a lot, they usually block, same for most martial arts (capoeira is an exception, but even they don’t dodge punches when fighting for real), Olympic sword fight is about being out of reach same for Kendo, you get in the reach when you see a weak spot, and jump out as soon as possible if miss. Also nobody dodge bullets. In other words, dodging is not a real option unless you are as fast as Bruce Lee (in this case using martial arts edges to gain this capacity, not exactly directly Dexterity).
        Last edited by Mateus Luz; 04-20-2020, 06:01 PM.


        House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
        Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
        Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

        Comment


        • #5
          Its just a strange conceit of the system, but it is weird if I want to make a character like Spiderman or the Flash (when he isn’t moving at top speed).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by andrewm9 View Post
            Its just a strange conceit of the system, but it is weird if I want to make a character like Spiderman or the Flash (when he isn’t moving at top speed).
            It will be addressed in the revision of the rules for aberrant. For now I would use a Mega Edge to add speed scale to the defense roll or use the Deflection Power.


            House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
            Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
            Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

            Comment


            • #7
              Although I am less familiar with some of the other storyteller rules, but going from the ones I was initially familiar with that had two rolls, one to hit, and one to damage, to just one roll, somethings gotta give for defense. That at least helped me get over my initially trepidation of rolling Resistance for Defense. That and hating Dex being the God Stat.

              As much as Rule 0 can be seen as a fallacy, just remember, Page 102 says that every Attribute and or Ability pairing from that chapter is a suggestion. I also could have sworn that there was some guidance about applying difficulty or complication from leaning into one attribute over another, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.


              Raksha are my fae-vorite.

              Reincarnation of magnificentmomo.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post

                It will be addressed in the revision of the rules for aberrant. For now I would use a Mega Edge to add speed scale to the defense roll or use the Deflection Power.

                My personal fix for this was that the user needed to be running for the mega-speed to apply, so running using Sprint, at least as a mixed action, to count as running, so that speed scale applies. Acceleration and speed are different things. A target riding on a motorcycle just starting to move is easier to hit than someone driving by at full speed.


                Raksha are my fae-vorite.

                Reincarnation of magnificentmomo.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MoroseMorgan View Post


                  My personal fix for this was that the user needed to be running for the mega-speed to apply, so running using Sprint, at least as a mixed action, to count as running, so that speed scale applies. Acceleration and speed are different things. A target riding on a motorcycle just starting to move is easier to hit than someone driving by at full speed.
                  Exactly. To gain speed scale on defense without being running mega fast you need another Mega Edge that allow you to react mega fast, dodging bullets matrix style, I would limit it to the lower of Mega Cunning and Mega Dexterity, as you need to be fast to detect and fast to move.


                  House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                  Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                  Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                    I agree in certain degree on Dexterity being used to dodge, while Stamina just increase toughness, but I use Stamina for a only reason, it’s extremely rare to dodge punches and attacks as we see in movies. Boxers don’t dodge a lot, they usually block, same for most martial arts (capoeira is an exception, but even they don’t dodge punches when fighting for real), Olympic sword fight is about being out of reach same for Kendo, you get in the reach when you see a weak spot, and jump out as soon as possible if miss. Also nobody dodge bullets. In other words, dodging is not a real option unless you are as fast as Bruce Lee (in this case using martial arts edges to gain this capacity, not exactly directly Dexterity).
                    This confuses me though. Isn't the idea of Storypath to emulate cool action-movies? I agree that Dex should not be a god-stat like in previous games but I have never gotten the impression that Storypath is supposed to mirror realism to a large extent.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aristarkos View Post

                      This confuses me though. Isn't the idea of Storypath to emulate cool action-movies? I agree that Dex should not be a god-stat like in previous games but I have never gotten the impression that Storypath is supposed to mirror realism to a large extent.
                      True. Well, I don’t see using Dex instead of Sta as a defense roll, and maybe add a skill instead of doubling when in full defense. I prefer Sta, but it’s your game.


                      House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                      Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                      Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think this is also the product of some psychological baggage from the legacy names of Dexterity, Might, and Stamina. Approach is really what is driving this, you are resisting, so us a resistance stat. Which is only weird if you are confronted with Dexterity, being right there, which is what we are used to resisting with. Erase all of the specific Attribute names and just think of them as a combination of their Arena and Approach, "Physical Resistance, Social Force, Mental Finesse..."

                        I also think Reaction Time is a big component on this, so I actually usually find myself rolling Resolve, or Composure for Defense, personally.

                        Again, nothing really breaks when you let people use Dex for Defense, but trying to break people of that mindset isn't a bad thing. If you do have a player that just keeps leaning into Dexterity and it seems to be hindering the game for you or the other players, try adding some additional Difficulty or Complication.


                        Raksha are my fae-vorite.

                        Reincarnation of magnificentmomo.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MoroseMorgan View Post
                          I also think Reaction Time is a big component on this, so I actually usually find myself rolling Resolve, or Composure for Defense, personally.
                          I generally just use the Scion approach and tell my group to roll their highest Resistance stat. They're going to try to describe their defense in a way to utilize their highest Resistance stat anyway.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post

                            True. Well, I don’t see using Dex instead of Sta as a defense roll, and maybe add a skill instead of doubling when in full defense. I prefer Sta, but it’s your game.

                            I'm not into Dex for defense either, and I do not think I have said so at any point. I'm rather thinking that dodging and blocking is a skill and therefore should utilize Close Combat. This is why I was curious to know if there would be alternatives out there for how to handle Defense.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              How does being good at Close Combat help you defend against getting shot?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X