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Artificial Intelligences and Psionics

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  • #16
    Bunyip I really like that rule. Really fits in with the Unity theme.


    “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bunyip View Post

      ...
      This is a limitation that some other psi users won’t have because they haven’t been artificially enhanced *and* limited. A psiad with telepathy and EK probably wouldn’t even register there was a problem. Nor would the Doyen.

      As ever, do as you please in you game, but psions explicitly cannot combine Auxiliary Modes with anything else. They need to work together as an intentional (Doyen) design limitation. In theory it makes them easier to control...
      Ooooh, okay, shiny. So I very much like this as a Psion limitation and not a psychic limitation, especially not a Psiad limitation.

      Honestly, it makes me once again like Psiads more than Psions, and I don't just mean in universe but also mechanics wise too.

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      • #18
        LordHeru exactly


        “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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        • #19
          Originally posted by LordHeru View Post

          Ooooh, okay, shiny. So I very much like this as a Psion limitation and not a psychic limitation, especially not a Psiad limitation.

          Honestly, it makes me once again like Psiads more than Psions, and I don't just mean in universe but also mechanics wise too.
          In a psychics-only game with a theme of Unity, I can understand why you'd put up hard barriers between the aptitudes. It lets everyone feel distinct and encourages teaming up to solve problems like this. However, in a mixed-splat game, I would probably prefer using psiads.

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          • #20
            Florin good point, but psiads are very rare during the Aeon era.


            “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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            • #21
              If we work in a Rebirth setting, after the war against the Doyen end (with humans surviving and expanding their colonies with help of Novas, Psiads and Talents), we could work on a few Psiad Edges that allow the to reach Psion level power and maybe the other advantages (like improving powers like psions when in a noetic connection).

              LordHeru Penelope, What do you guys think?

              Edit: the Rebirth name is a suggestion, based on Renascence, with people developing after a long and hard time of difficulties.
              Last edited by Mateus Luz; 06-10-2020, 03:44 PM.


              The proper answer to “Hello There” is, obviously, “General Kenobi”.
              Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
              Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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              • #22
                I am definitely up for Psiad Edges that push the envelop of what they can do. Edges that might increase Psi or Mode maximums, that may add certain additional features or capabilities, etc. I think there is a lot of potential to take what exists now and push it slightly into different directions.

                The idea of a setting where an expanded Psi group and an accepted Quantum group work together to expand humanity among the stars is brilliant. We don't go one way or the other we go all ways, and that is our species advantage.

                Actually, come to think of it, our species has been doing it wrong. What I mean is that we have the Nova Age where Novas are present and the Psi Age where its all about Psions what we need is say a Telluric Age where Novas and Psiads and the third branch of Super-Talents are all equally present. Hmm. Sounds like a fun super age. hehe

                But yes. To the original question. I totally see there being Edges that push Psiads further in their power level. In my estimation the more a psiad sees what their psion contemparies can do the more they will try and push their own abilities to get equivalent things.

                I mean lets think about how QK was created in a manfiested way by a Psiad pushing the envelop. (Now mind you she was a Psiad like Divis Mal was a Nova but it works.)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by LordHeru View Post

                  Ooooh, okay, shiny. So I very much like this as a Psion limitation and not a psychic limitation, especially not a Psiad limitation.

                  Honestly, it makes me once again like Psiads more than Psions, and I don't just mean in universe but also mechanics wise too.
                  Psiads versus Psions reminds me a lot of Infernals versus Solar Exalted in Exalted 2E. They sound amazingly super cool, and you get really hyped thinking about them, but when you dig deep into the mechanics, you find that - without massive amounts of min-maxing - they generally suck badly compared to the main splat.

                  Them having a lower psi cap, fewer psi points, worse attunement range, fewer starting dots in their psi powers, and no chance to start at Psi 3 make perfect sense, as their powers are natural rather than the genetically engineered turbo-charged sports car version granted by the Doyen, but it still hurts a bit.

                  What really hurts are the xp chart differences. Psiads pay more xp for raising Psi Trait, (Primary) Mode dots, and Secondary/Auxiliary Mode dots. This may also make sense for in-universe reasons (the natural vs. turbocharged artificial argument), but from a gaming perspective it means that psiads start out weaker, then fall further and further behind psions on the power curve as the campaign goes on; a situation which is exacerbated when the psions eventually start picking up 5, 6, and 7 dot powers, while the psiads don't.

                  You can try claiming their increased versatility makes up for this, but when starting out they're no more versatile than a psion either. A psion can start out with only a single dot in an Auxiliary Mode, but psiads start with two dots in one Primary Aptitude and a single dot in another, and can only gain more than a single dot in their Secondary Aptitudes by raising their Psi to 3, so they're literally no more versatile than a psion at character creation.

                  As far as I can tell, there are only three big benefits to being a psiad, and they're all very situational:

                  1). Pro - You start with the Psi-Cloak ability despite not having enough Psi to unlock Quantakinesis.

                  Con - Psions can choose to start at Psi 3 and put a starting dot in a Quantakinesis Mode, which unlocks Psi-Cloak anyway.

                  2). Pro - Psiads can naturally combine their Aptitudes like Captain Planet.

                  Con - Psions can do the same thing when teamed up with other psions (you are playing in a group, right?), and may find it suspicious when your psiad isn't contributing combo benefits as per the table on page 208.

                  3). Pro - The Doyen haven't screwed you over with a hidden telepathic booby trap.

                  Con - This will very seldom come up in most games, and if it does come up, the Doyen is likely to try killing you first, possibly via one of your psion buddies.

                  Overall, Psiads seem likely to come off poorly in a mixed game with Psions.
                  Last edited by Shepherdboi; 06-10-2020, 06:19 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Mateus Luz I think that’s a great idea. I agree with everything LordHeru said. I think developing an Edge like that would be something for a psiad character to aspire toward and it really goes with the hopeful optimism of a post-Doyen War setting.

                    Shepherdboi I wouldn’t play a psiad in an all-psion group. I would be out-powered, I wouldn’t be very useful and I would feel out of place. But if I was running an Aeon game and a player really wanted to run a psiad instead of a psion, I would probably work with them to change some of the mechanics so their character could compete on a more level playing field.


                    “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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                    • #25
                      Psiads work better in groups with Talents and superiors, as they complete each other in different ways than Psions does to each other.

                      Psiads also evolve kind of in the same speed and closely with the same limits as Talents, while Superiors go a bit faster (about as fast as Psions) and able to reach higher power level (kind of as psions too).


                      The proper answer to “Hello There” is, obviously, “General Kenobi”.
                      Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                      Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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                      • #26
                        Mateus Luz that makes sense.


                        “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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                        • #27
                          A part of me is frustrated that the main group of psi users that we follow in Aeon is the foreign race manipulated and artificially bound Psions rather than the completely natural and real and potentially one part of humanity's potential Psiads. This utter fact - the alien manipulation and such - always serves as a dark cloud for me when it comes to the group. Despite the fact that mechanically there is totally nothing wrong with how the system is designed or the powers are written up or how the characters are played.

                          When it comes down to it the Psiad I would want to play is one that potentially could go Psi max (so right now 7) in all Modes in all Aptitudes. It would take time and effort and be pretty epic but its what I find as a potential to be really fun. The fact that such a potential is basically the end game as far as humanity's psychic genes is concerned is a positive to my want, even if we aren't there yet.

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                          • #28
                            As interesting as a psiad-centric chronicle would be, I get why the main group are psions. Making the default splat a manufactured group means:

                            1). Your common origin gives you ready made organizations to slot into. Randomly empowered people across the world don't necessarily come with top tier financial/political backing.

                            2). They let the setting pump out significant numbers of empowered in a short period of time. They've made more psions in a handful of years than there were Aberrants during the entire Nova age.

                            3). Speaking of Aberrants, having a readily explainable origin means society didn't immediately flip out over the apparent coming of Aberrants 2.0.

                            4). Having them be a manufactured splat means story hooks for uncovering the secrets of the Prometheus Chambers, and keeping them safe from criminals, governments, and corporations seeking to unlock their secrets to make psions loyal to them.

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                            • #29
                              Shepherdboi I like psions, but I also get why someone might wanna play a psiad in the Aeon setting.


                              “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
                                A part of me is frustrated that the main group of psi users that we follow in Aeon is the foreign race manipulated and artificially bound Psions rather than the completely natural and real and potentially one part of humanity's potential Psiads.
                                You mean the completely natural results of the wave of energy released by an exploding Telluric device in the 1930s?

                                Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
                                When it comes down to it the Psiad I would want to play is one that potentially could go Psi max (so right now 7) in all Modes in all Aptitudes. It would take time and effort and be pretty epic but its what I find as a potential to be really fun. The fact that such a potential is basically the end game as far as humanity's psychic genes is concerned is a positive to my want, even if we aren't there yet.
                                In my head, Psi 7 isn’t how far humanity can go. Give us a few thousand more years and we’ll be subquantum gods on the verge of transcendence.


                                Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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