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  • #46
    Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
    (Will comment on other things once I take them in)

    I will say this though I think that all Mega-Attributes should effect Scale in some main way. The idea that Mega-Cunning only effects scale with Initiative seems to be lacking in putting the full power behind Cunning. Resolve and Dexterity don't effect scale at all. How is that logical?
    Because parallelism on paper doesn't equal balance in gameplay. Initiative Scale is INSANELY powerful. Erasing Complications on movement is huge in large part because your movement rolls aren't generally going to have someone's opposing Scale, instead the challenge with play out through Complications that Mega-Dex erases.

    Resolve and Composure I do think could use a boost. One or both should grant Scale in resisting power-enhanced mental/social influences.


    Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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    • #47
      Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

      Because parallelism on paper doesn't equal balance in gameplay. Initiative Scale is INSANELY powerful. Erasing Complications on movement is huge in large part because your movement rolls aren't generally going to have someone's opposing Scale, instead the challenge with play out through Complications that Mega-Dex erases.

      Resolve and Composure I do think could use a boost. One or both should grant Scale in resisting power-enhanced mental/social influences.

      If absolute balance was an issue, I think they'd need it, but aren't influence checks something you can refuse automatically if you don't agree them (with little cost)?

      Edit: Nevermind just reread the Hypnotic Presence and compelling presence. Maybe they should add a power simillar to Sensory Shield to protect from those type of powers.
      Last edited by Monkeydjie; 11-02-2020, 12:02 PM.

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      • #48
        I am not asking that a Nova trounce a mortal in everything, all I am asking is that the player gets to do that which they are said to be able to do, and that is best formated by letting them use their powers. If something is supposed to represent superhuman attributes then they should apply in some form to everything the base attributes do. This apply can be 'free' with the gaining of the mega-attribute itself or via an associated Mega-Edge to boost the capability to a somewhat side direction. But to me if a dice pool has an attribute then one's mega-attribute should apply somehow.

        I say let there be narrative scale boost that translates to the whole 2 enhancements per difference from base - so a Mega-Attribute 1 person has 2 enhancements, 2 dots is 4 enhancements, etc while also sometimes being able to say he does things at a higher scale level then normal.

        Honestly, from reading some other threads in the internet I think many other people might think similarly - that having a Mega-Attribute they get automatic Scale equal to its rating for everything they do. The fact that this is not true is mind boggling to me.

        As is the fact that a nova's regular traits don't always get applied when they use certain Mega-Edges, like the hypnosis one I said above which is a roll of Quantum + Mega-Manipulation instead of say gaining the Mega-Edge adds the twist to one's normal abilities, and a boost to said manipulations by Mega-Manipulation. (In otherwords without the Mega-Edge the ability the power refers to cannot even be done in such a way, but with the Mega-Edge the nova now has the ability, boosted by his Mega-Manipulation rating.)

        --

        Also I am not knocking getting scale for Initiative when one has Mega-Cunning. I think that is cool and useful. But I also don't think it should be the main point for that mega-attribute because what happens in sessions that don't have combat.


        ----

        Mega-Scent vs Mega-Cunning granted Keen Senses Edge

        As said, doesn't the Enhancement equal to Mega-Cunning that is granted in the Keen Senses (All) Edge apply to this, basically giving them Mega-Scent already?

        Last edited by LordHeru; 11-02-2020, 09:45 PM.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Shepherdboi View Post
          One thing I noticed with the PDF - and I'm not sure if this is a design feature or an oversight that needs an errata submission - is the Warp power's Impose tag. It looks like you need a number of successes equal to their Defense + 3 to suck someone through a wormhole. Since your maximum normal dice pool is 16 (Quantum 9 + Warp 7), a completely mundane human with a decent Defense has a good chance of ignoring Divis Mal's attempt to telefrag him. While I understand they don't want players derailing adventures with constant warp gate telefrags, these rules seem to make it virtually impossible for anyone less powerful than an elder Aberrant to use the option, and it doesn't stop your grapple monster buddy from just grabbing the guy and throwing him through anyway.
          I'm definitely making an errata submission on Warp. Not only does it require a Defense + 3 roll to work, the Teleport power two pages earlier only requires rolling vs. Defense. Having just skimmed back through the core book, I've realized a Minor Threat Antagonist (the weakest non-minion antagonist) gets a Defense of 3. As written, you literally have to roll a minimum of 6 successes to affect anyone other than a stock minion, and even a minion seems to require 4-5 successes.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
            I am not asking that a Nova trounce a mortal in everything, all I am asking is that the player gets to do that which they are said to be able to do, and that is best formated by letting them use their powers. If something is supposed to represent superhuman attributes then they should apply in some form to everything the base attributes do. This apply can be 'free' with the gaining of the mega-attribute itself or via an associated Mega-Edge to boost the capability to a somewhat side direction. But to me if a dice pool has an attribute then one's mega-attribute should apply somehow.

            I say let there be narrative scale boost that translates to the whole 2 enhancements per difference from base - so a Mega-Attribute 1 person has 2 enhancements, 2 dots is 4 enhancements, etc while also sometimes being able to say he does things at a higher scale level then normal.

            Honestly, from reading some other threads in the internet I think many other people might think similarly - that having a Mega-Attribute they get automatic Scale equal to its rating for everything they do. The fact that this is not true is mind boggling to me.
            Back when the backer manuscript preview was released, I remember saying that we definitely needed more clarity about what the Mega-Attributes did and didn't apply to. The final book may be an improvement, but I feel things could be a lot more clear.

            Honestly, I think what we need is a detailed example. "Nova McExample has one dot in each of the nine Mega-Attributes, but no Mega-Edges. He gains bonuses A, B, and C but not X, Y, or Z, for which he would need..."

            The ideal explanation might actually be a full checklist of the traits required for a nova to be "superhuman" in every meaningful respect -- which Mega-Edges are needed to fill in the blanks, as it were.

            (Aberrant 1e was a flawed game in many ways, but it was fairly easy to tell what your character actually needed to be super-everything: pretty much just Mega-Attributes plus Armor, and maybe Psychic Shield.)

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            • #51
              Actually it said when you can use Mega Attributes, it don’t say when you can’t, but there is a very small list of RPGs that tell you what you can’t do, so it’s not that bad.

              I understand Mega Attribute are not as useful as they were in 1e, but I agree with the new edition and the limited uses of them. Having Mega Attributes made every roll irrelevant and every thing other than the mega attribute irrelevant to the roll.

              The new system give some weight to the Mega Attributes, but they don’t make the rest irrelevant in the rolls.

              If you want to make the Mega Attributes more important, you can roll the mega attribute with the attribute, so if you have a Athletics 3 + Strength 4 + Mega Strength 2 you roll 9 dice instead of 7. It would make it a bit better, but it would unbalance their use and many rolls.


              House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
              Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
              Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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              • #52
                I don't actually have a problem with the Mega-Attributes having only specific functions per se, but it gets complicated enough that IMO the exclusions should be more clearly called out.

                The flavor text for Mega-Stamina actually says it grants "resistance to harm." You have to read the details pretty carefully to get the full picture, and I could easily see a new player genuinely reading the whole thing and not realizing what he's missing. It could really use a note like "Mega-Stamina alone does not apply to direct damage from enemy attacks; if you're trying to build a super-tough nova, see Toughness, p. 197."

                And...hrm. I just noticed that the Accuracy Mega-Edge makes it sound as if Mega-Dexterity doesn't normally apply to combat rolls, but I don't see anything in the Mega-Dexterity entry that would prevent it from applying to ranged attacks just like any other Dexterity roll. Or am I missing some detail of the combat rules that would make Mega-Dexterity's difficulty reduction inapplicable?

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                • #53
                  MDex just reduces difficulties and complications (Defense is Difficulty), so it is useful but limited, while Accuracy grants enhancements, what is far more useful when dealing with easy targets. But MDex can be used in close combat while accuracy doesn’t, as long the attack is made using dexterity, for example trying to scape from a grapple.


                  House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                  Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                  Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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                  • #54
                    Thanks. I have to say, at first I was baffled to see "a chess grandmaster" as an example of mental Scale. Then I remembered that you can get Scale from a skill trick, which I assume is how you'd represent grandmastery in this system. (Although I am honestly not sure which of the sixteen skills would apply to a chess match.)

                    So on that note, does a Scale boost from a skill trick stack with Mega-Attribute/Mega-Edge Scale? I had almost forgotten about skill tricks while reading all the crazy powers novas can get, but it does seem like a useful way to represent novas with some kind of specialized aptitude. (Like that guy with a superhuman sense of style who designs nova identities.)

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Jefepato View Post
                      Thanks. I have to say, at first I was baffled to see "a chess grandmaster" as an example of mental Scale. Then I remembered that you can get Scale from a skill trick, which I assume is how you'd represent grandmastery in this system. (Although I am honestly not sure which of the sixteen skills would apply to a chess match.)

                      So on that note, does a Scale boost from a skill trick stack with Mega-Attribute/Mega-Edge Scale? I had almost forgotten about skill tricks while reading all the crazy powers novas can get, but it does seem like a useful way to represent novas with some kind of specialized aptitude. (Like that guy with a superhuman sense of style who designs nova identities.)
                      The Swift Edge grants +1 speed scale when running and only costs 1 dot, so I could easily accept cheap non-powered Edges that grant Scale in limited circumstances. Having a 1 dot Chessmaster Edge seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'd also make a game of chess default to Intellect+Enigmas (swap to Cunning for speed chess and Resolve for marathon chess matches).

                      I also know that Psions and Psiads with the Biokinesis Enhance power can gain a speed scale boost that stacks with the Swift Edge, so I don't see why Novas wouldn't stack appropriate scale boosts as well.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Shepherdboi View Post
                        The Swift Edge grants +1 speed scale when running and only costs 1 dot, so I could easily accept cheap non-powered Edges that grant Scale in limited circumstances. Having a 1 dot Chessmaster Edge seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'd also make a game of chess default to Intellect+Enigmas (swap to Cunning for speed chess and Resolve for marathon chess matches).

                        I also know that Psions and Psiads with the Biokinesis Enhance power can gain a speed scale boost that stacks with the Swift Edge, so I don't see why Novas wouldn't stack appropriate scale boosts as well.
                        That's a good point -- an Edge probably makes more sense than a skill trick, since a skill trick granting Scale apparently only works for one round, and a chess grandmaster could beat you in chess all day regardless of Momentum.

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                        • #57
                          Rounds out of combat are a bit more flexible.

                          You could make a chess match be a single test, a complex action or a sequence of moves, as long it’s relevant to the game.


                          House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                          Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                          Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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                          • #58
                            The chess master probably has a specialty that gives 3 enhancement on every chess related roll as well as an applicable skill trick or two to use on occasion.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by andrewm9 View Post
                              The chess master probably has a specialty that gives 3 enhancement on every chess related roll as well as an applicable skill trick or two to use on occasion.
                              The problem with Specialties is that they don't apply to the Skill in which you have the Specialty, so if chess is an Enigmas roll, you'd need something like Culture to specialize in chess as a popular game, Humanities to specialize in chess through a historical lens, or Empathy to get a read on your opponent. Maybe a world class chess player has three dots in multiple Skills (since it strains belief for them to have 5 in multiple Skills) and chess related Enhancements on all of them? Between that and a scale boosting Edge, I can see a chess master readily trouncing almost anyone.

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                              • #60
                                You only need one of them to get the enhancement on all the others. Personally I think it is very weird the way specialties are done in Trinity and I personally don’t run it that way. The idea isn’t without merit, but its not for me and my group.
                                Last edited by andrewm9; 11-10-2020, 10:04 AM.

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