Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

[Aberrant] More Teragen factions

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Bear in mind that at some point before the Aberrant War ends, Eden is founded. I mention it because the social structure of Eden reminds me a lot of what many Teragens would imagine a peaceful relationship between baselines and Novas should look like.


    Yeah, I can't help but see some of the saner Teragen philosophy at work in Eden, though canonically (inasmuch as that matters) their respect for and remembrance of Project Utopia probably means that's not the official explanation, or at least not for the majority of them.


    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Also, I don't think that an “uplift the baselines!” project would discover the existence of Talents. The aforementioned Nakamura Process from the Æon era does occasionally result in Talents; but they're not recognized as such: they're viewed as failures who remained baselines instead of becoming Superiors.I doubt that they're be able to discover psiads, either.


    This isn't quite true, I don't think. They're referred to as 'no longer quite baselines either', which indicates that them being something other than normal is a known quantity, even if exactly how that works is not well understood. I do agree that, at least at first, any Talents created would be seen simply as failures, but figuring out there's something odd about them is more likely for a Mega-Intelligent Nova than it is for a baseline in the same situation, so I think they'd probably figure it out eventually if they keep doing it. They'd figure it out much quicker if they had access to the Aeon Society's files on Project Tantalus. As for Psiads, they'd definitely figure them out to some degree if they ever triggered one. These are exactly the people who'd have the technology to check if someone is using Quantum (or just the Mega-Edge for it), and having a 'superpowered' person who doesn't 'ping' the detector would tell them something was screwy, at which point research on that subject can reveal quite a lot.

    I do however suspect that, even if they did figure out one or both of those options, they'd be perceived as dead ends. Neither grants the power or potential of being a Nova. Indeed, in terms of obvious abilities neither even comes close, and from a transhumanist Nova perspective, they're better than nothing but decidedly inferior to making an actual Nova.


    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    But I could see them developing a process that creates an Aberrant-era counterpart of the Æon-era sub-Aberrants: enhanced baselines (specifically, no Quantum trait) who have the equivalent of Mega-Attributes, Mega-Edges, and/or Quantum Powers that were granted to them through Super-Science techniques. I say “the equivalent of” because this can't be done as Q-Tech; the only way to do it is as novatech, which generally starts by creating a Q-Tech version (e.g., a drug that can boost a Nova's Mega-Might) and then reverse-engineering it until he can create a version that will work on anyone.
    I could definitely see this as well. Probably without the horrible mutations, at least for the most part. It's be a stop-gap from the perspective of true transhumanism, but a very nice stopgap, and a good tool to buy time.

    Comment


    • #17
      The biggest thing about understanding those processes is that mega intelligent novas are smarter than well, anything else, either psion or talent. So even if they can't directly perceive some of the energies (IE, talents/psions) or can't perceive them easily--well, how many physicists can directly perceive a neutron or electron, and yet they have no problem developing theories about them. So I could see them learning more about such powers, even if at one remove. (this is why I think the best way to reverse engineer the prometheus chambers is going to need a psion group and some mega-intelligent novas doing some of the theoretical lifting).

      The interesting thing is that the more "successful' Teragen groups have a very easy reason why they vanish? Someone who figures out a good teragen style philosophy is likely to control their evolution and hit quantum 10...and then go off and do...whatever it is gods do.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Astromancer View Post
        Given that Abberant is about a transformed world, why are the religious factions of the Teragen factions only Abrahamic? (Probably lack of detailed info on the religious beliefs in question).

        Pol Pot was no one's idea of a devout and moral Buddhist but Buddhist ideas of purity were what Pol Pot warped and twisted into his bloodspattered doctrans. One could see both noble and perverse uses of Buddhist, Hindu, Yoraba, Taoist, or other religious paths. Picture a devout Confucian Teragen faction determined as the superior ones to impose social propriety on the USA. The chaos would be awesome.
        I wouldn’t consider any of the Teragen factions to be Abrahamic at all. Any resemblance is entirely superficial. They are pursuing their own divinity not holding up some other icon with the exception of perhaps Divis Mal.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by andrewm9 View Post

          I wouldn’t consider any of the Teragen factions to be Abrahamic at all. Any resemblance is entirely superficial. They are pursuing their own divinity not holding up some other icon with the exception of perhaps Divis Mal.
          A valid point. But then, in our real world, there are dozens of religious cults that use the forms of the Abrahamic faiths and clearly little else. Jim Jones famously was in it to pursue his "divinity." My example of Pol Pot has someone who paid lip service to Buddhist ideas and as I pointed out was nobody's idea of a good Buddhist. Similarly, Jim Jones, Warren Jeffers, David Koresh, and similar cult leaders are about as Christian as a drain plug.

          Although, the idea of an actually devout Teragen would create interesting dynamics.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
            By the way you can believe in Novas as something other than baselines and still believe that baselines deserve some care.
            There are many ways you could go with this- one of which might look a lot like the vegan view of human-animal interactions: that it's wrong to exploit the things even as company. So you might have Novas who express the idea of caring for humans by wanting to leave them entire alone, because what chance does a human have to flourish when put alongside incomprehensible geniuses who can charm a nation with a smile and swat armies like gnats?

            Comment


            • #21
              And honestly, a lot would argue that it's not good for the novas. It's like a college student sticking around a first grade class to lord it over them--instead of seeking out his equals.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by NewK View Post
                And honestly, a lot would argue that it's not good for the novas. It's like a college student sticking around a first grade class to lord it over them--instead of seeking out his equals.
                True, but it could also be a graduate student providing further assistance to the undergrads in the absence of the professor. They HAVE lives outside, but they choose to be of assistance in elevating the less educated.

                I suppose in 1st ed terms this is probably the mindset of Dr. Worm of the Aberrants.

                Comment


                • #23
                  While conceptually I agree there are space and concepts to be covered, I still think there are not that many Novas in the world to properly cover all the possible sides and form groups around that concepts. I am not telling you can’t create groups, or change any way the numbers, I’m just pointing there are not that many novas around to cover everything they would if the numbers were big enough.

                  If you use a few holistic theories, you have 80% of the population being present in 20% of the groups. Also, a good part of the Novas would not be part of any group, just because no, like a good part of general people have no connection to any religion, or political party or similar society.

                  So the mathematics would be something like, 800 being related to Utopia, 300 being related to Teragen (including all the subgroups), 200 Elites, 100 Daedalus League, 100 Team Tomorrow, 100 Aeon. That sums 1600 Novas. The other 400 I would say there is no group with more than 50 Novas (small teams, city protectors, national protectors, or just consulting groups, and many solo or dark stars).

                  Inside Teragen, the numbers are even smaller, I really doubt any of the subgroups have more than 50 members, even the most popular, and most are a very small selection of novas with a relatively open ended opinion on a subject. Sure there are divergences, but the numbers are so small that those divergences would hardly split any of them.

                  They are all super stars, and super stars are always having issues with their friends, but they are not working together, they just meet each other every once in a while to do stuff or discuss ideas, so the chances of them splitting is very small, more like a team of old friends that play games on Saturday nights and less like rock bands during tours.
                  Last edited by Mateus Luz; 07-21-2021, 01:21 PM.


                  House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                  Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                  Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    That's one thing I have to keep reminding myself that's different from first edition, it's that there is no where near as many novas in the world. So it does make sense that groups of them wouldn't be as large or numerous.

                    I imagine that because of this novas will probably be seen as being even more valuable, because of this countries and organisations will put more effort into preventing their novas from being poached others.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      That is the feel they intended. Our novas are far more important in 2e than in 1e just because there are too few of them.

                      Of course we don’t need to make this info so important, I just want to point out that we can’t say they do everything in the world, most places can’t count on Novas to solve their problems or even for any help.

                      Let’s use a real world example to make it more effective, with the floods all over Europe, China and Australia, there would be about 200 Novas able and willing to help all those people. It means the number of dead would be basically the same, the searches would be a bit faster, but still risky to the baselines envolved.
                      Last edited by Mateus Luz; 07-21-2021, 02:41 PM.


                      House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                      Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                      Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                        While conceptually I agree there are space and concepts to be covered, I still think there are not that many Novas in the world to properly cover all the possible sides and form groups around that concepts. I am not telling you can’t create groups, or change any way the numbers, I’m just pointing there are not that many novas around to cover everything they would if the numbers were big enough.

                        If you use a few holistic theories, you have 80% of the population being present in 20% of the groups. Also, a good part of the Novas would not be part of any group, just because no, like a good part of general people have no connection to any religion, or political party or similar society.

                        So the mathematics would be something like, 800 being related to Utopia, 300 being related to Teragen (including all the subgroups), 200 Elites, 100 Daedalus League, 100 Team Tomorrow, 100 Aeon. That sums 1600 Novas. The other 400 I would say there is no group with more than 50 Novas (small teams, city protectors, national protectors, or just consulting groups, and many solo or dark stars).

                        Inside Teragen, the numbers are even smaller, I really doubt any of the subgroups have more than 50 members, even the most popular, and most are a very small selection of novas with a relatively open ended opinion on a subject. Sure there are divergences, but the numbers are so small that those divergences would hardly split any of them.

                        They are all super stars, and super stars are always having issues with their friends, but they are not working together, they just meet each other every once in a while to do stuff or discuss ideas, so the chances of them splitting is very small, more like a team of old friends that play games on Saturday nights and less like rock bands during tours.

                        Thanks for this. The numbers have really helped me put the faction generation in perspective. I would say that my disciples are in one of those small 50 groups, and as such not really that relevant. I'll have to think how to recycle them. The only thing that surprises me of your numbers is Utopia having that many Novas. I know it was the "first" faction, so it makes sense that they have a numbers advantage, but 800? If that's the case, how come the Aberrants haven't been wiped out yet?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I put Utopia as 800ish because it has the largest structure (global, many training centers, many projects all around the world, and so many options of work) and is the one that actively go after new novas to help them.

                          On the fighting capacity, Utopia is not Team Tomorrow, it’s more about finding and helping new novas, helping and funding nova researches and things like that, also, most if the novas are newbies and much less powerful than the Aberrants. Teragen have the intention of making novas powerful, and Aberrants are actively fighting against law enforcers and other military some times, but Utopia want to bring peace and prosperity to the world, so the novas are not induced to gain power, but to learn to control their powers to best benefit the group (that is the philosophy, there are novas going after brute power in every faction).

                          If you prefer, you can switch 800 Teragen and 300 Utopia, it would make Teragen a bigger group and justify all the subdivisions among them, the largest groups would be 100 nova max, but I would not make Aberrants that numerous (at least not in 2028).


                          House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                          Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                          Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Utopia's fighting strength is pretty much Team Tomorrow, which, as I understand it is about 25 Novas total (of which only 20 or so are actual combatants). There are also support personnel, but that's not the same thing. That's actually quite a lot, in absolute terms (it means that 1 in 80 Novas, more than 1% of them, are members of Team Tomorrow), but actually working for Utopia is a lot more common than that. The Aberrants are likely bigger than that philosophically, but smaller in terms of active 'nova level combatants', but maybe not, and certainly not by orders of magnitude or anything.

                            Personally, I think estimating 800 novas in Project Utopia is over by quite a bit and would peg it at more like 500-600 (including Team Tomorrow), another 400-500 Elites (which, remember, covers Novas doing independent work for hire in general, not just mercenaries), something like 300 Teragen, 100 in the Daedalus League, another 100 in the Aeon Society and Directive combined (which is just 100 in the Aeon Society if you go with the Directive not employing Novas), at least another 100 working directly for various governments (maybe more) then 400 'unaffiliated'. In reality, a lot of those last 400 would have an affiliation, but it's to some baseline-majority group like a political party or church, which has less (often much less) than 50 Nova devotees who would list it as their highest allegiance.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I like your numbers too. Make sense, indeed increasing the number of elites makes much more sense than my numbers. I was leaving most of the non combatant elites as unaffiliated, but it’s probably better to put them working for hire to the elite companies as consulting and super specialists.


                              House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                              Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                              Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Aeonstorm View Post
                                That's one thing I have to keep reminding myself that's different from first edition, it's that there is no where near as many novas in the world. So it does make sense that groups of them wouldn't be as large or numerous.

                                I imagine that because of this novas will probably be seen as being even more valuable, because of this countries and organisations will put more effort into preventing their novas from being poached others.

                                Well, in the old game there were about 5K-7K Novas around in the world if memory tricks me not, so while there is a definite difference, the numbers seem to be in mostly the same scale overall.


                                Originally posted by Deadmanwalking View Post
                                Personally, I'd be interested in seeing a 'spinoff' of the Teragen who are more truly transhumanist. Baselines are inherently inferior to Novas, sure, that's objectively true, and limits the pool of real peers a Mega-Intellect Nova (for example) can have...but should the goal, then, not be to figure out how to turn Baselines into Novas, eventually solving the problem of a limited peer group in the most direct way possible? This should theoretically be possible for a powerful and dedicated enough Nova scientist...

                                This individual (almost certainly a really high Mega-Intellect Nova if it's one guy) or group, would probably get on a bit better with random people than the Teragen, but only a bit (they're still fundamentally saying that Novas are better, and no longer human on some levels) and wind up actually pretty opposed to the Teragen in few ways (anyone who believes in 'destiny' or wants baselines around to serve and worship them...that's a lot of the Teragen), and be a real game changer if they start being able to actually make Novas, but not necessarily in a good way for the world at large in the short term (depending on how careful they were). This is especially true if they can only cause Latent Novas to Erupt (which would almost certainly be the first thing they figured out...turning ordinary humans into Latent Novas would be a lot harder), because then you get people going to them and trying to become Novas and it not working, and that breeds serious resentment and unpleasantness.

                                Something like this seems to create a more interesting story seed than new factions that are fully Teragen.
                                Pretty sure such a faction existed in the first edition - they were called the Harvesters and led by Altaz “The Apothecary” Zia, with a secondary (and somewhat antagonistic) leading figure in the young and proactive Monster called Leviathan (also a Pantheon member back then), with ties on Nova Vigilance.
                                Last edited by Baaldam; 07-22-2021, 05:45 AM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X