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[Aberrant] More Teragen factions

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  • Darksol-aeternium
    replied
    Originally posted by NewK View Post
    And honestly, a lot would argue that it's not good for the novas. It's like a college student sticking around a first grade class to lord it over them--instead of seeking out his equals.
    True, but it could also be a graduate student providing further assistance to the undergrads in the absence of the professor. They HAVE lives outside, but they choose to be of assistance in elevating the less educated.

    I suppose in 1st ed terms this is probably the mindset of Dr. Worm of the Aberrants.

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  • NewK
    replied
    And honestly, a lot would argue that it's not good for the novas. It's like a college student sticking around a first grade class to lord it over them--instead of seeking out his equals.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shalmaneser
    replied
    Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
    By the way you can believe in Novas as something other than baselines and still believe that baselines deserve some care.
    There are many ways you could go with this- one of which might look a lot like the vegan view of human-animal interactions: that it's wrong to exploit the things even as company. So you might have Novas who express the idea of caring for humans by wanting to leave them entire alone, because what chance does a human have to flourish when put alongside incomprehensible geniuses who can charm a nation with a smile and swat armies like gnats?

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  • Astromancer
    replied
    Originally posted by andrewm9 View Post

    I wouldn’t consider any of the Teragen factions to be Abrahamic at all. Any resemblance is entirely superficial. They are pursuing their own divinity not holding up some other icon with the exception of perhaps Divis Mal.
    A valid point. But then, in our real world, there are dozens of religious cults that use the forms of the Abrahamic faiths and clearly little else. Jim Jones famously was in it to pursue his "divinity." My example of Pol Pot has someone who paid lip service to Buddhist ideas and as I pointed out was nobody's idea of a good Buddhist. Similarly, Jim Jones, Warren Jeffers, David Koresh, and similar cult leaders are about as Christian as a drain plug.

    Although, the idea of an actually devout Teragen would create interesting dynamics.

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  • andrewm9
    replied
    Originally posted by Astromancer View Post
    Given that Abberant is about a transformed world, why are the religious factions of the Teragen factions only Abrahamic? (Probably lack of detailed info on the religious beliefs in question).

    Pol Pot was no one's idea of a devout and moral Buddhist but Buddhist ideas of purity were what Pol Pot warped and twisted into his bloodspattered doctrans. One could see both noble and perverse uses of Buddhist, Hindu, Yoraba, Taoist, or other religious paths. Picture a devout Confucian Teragen faction determined as the superior ones to impose social propriety on the USA. The chaos would be awesome.
    I wouldn’t consider any of the Teragen factions to be Abrahamic at all. Any resemblance is entirely superficial. They are pursuing their own divinity not holding up some other icon with the exception of perhaps Divis Mal.

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  • NewK
    replied
    The biggest thing about understanding those processes is that mega intelligent novas are smarter than well, anything else, either psion or talent. So even if they can't directly perceive some of the energies (IE, talents/psions) or can't perceive them easily--well, how many physicists can directly perceive a neutron or electron, and yet they have no problem developing theories about them. So I could see them learning more about such powers, even if at one remove. (this is why I think the best way to reverse engineer the prometheus chambers is going to need a psion group and some mega-intelligent novas doing some of the theoretical lifting).

    The interesting thing is that the more "successful' Teragen groups have a very easy reason why they vanish? Someone who figures out a good teragen style philosophy is likely to control their evolution and hit quantum 10...and then go off and do...whatever it is gods do.

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  • Deadmanwalking
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Bear in mind that at some point before the Aberrant War ends, Eden is founded. I mention it because the social structure of Eden reminds me a lot of what many Teragens would imagine a peaceful relationship between baselines and Novas should look like.


    Yeah, I can't help but see some of the saner Teragen philosophy at work in Eden, though canonically (inasmuch as that matters) their respect for and remembrance of Project Utopia probably means that's not the official explanation, or at least not for the majority of them.


    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Also, I don't think that an “uplift the baselines!” project would discover the existence of Talents. The aforementioned Nakamura Process from the Æon era does occasionally result in Talents; but they're not recognized as such: they're viewed as failures who remained baselines instead of becoming Superiors.I doubt that they're be able to discover psiads, either.


    This isn't quite true, I don't think. They're referred to as 'no longer quite baselines either', which indicates that them being something other than normal is a known quantity, even if exactly how that works is not well understood. I do agree that, at least at first, any Talents created would be seen simply as failures, but figuring out there's something odd about them is more likely for a Mega-Intelligent Nova than it is for a baseline in the same situation, so I think they'd probably figure it out eventually if they keep doing it. They'd figure it out much quicker if they had access to the Aeon Society's files on Project Tantalus. As for Psiads, they'd definitely figure them out to some degree if they ever triggered one. These are exactly the people who'd have the technology to check if someone is using Quantum (or just the Mega-Edge for it), and having a 'superpowered' person who doesn't 'ping' the detector would tell them something was screwy, at which point research on that subject can reveal quite a lot.

    I do however suspect that, even if they did figure out one or both of those options, they'd be perceived as dead ends. Neither grants the power or potential of being a Nova. Indeed, in terms of obvious abilities neither even comes close, and from a transhumanist Nova perspective, they're better than nothing but decidedly inferior to making an actual Nova.


    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    But I could see them developing a process that creates an Aberrant-era counterpart of the Æon-era sub-Aberrants: enhanced baselines (specifically, no Quantum trait) who have the equivalent of Mega-Attributes, Mega-Edges, and/or Quantum Powers that were granted to them through Super-Science techniques. I say “the equivalent of” because this can't be done as Q-Tech; the only way to do it is as novatech, which generally starts by creating a Q-Tech version (e.g., a drug that can boost a Nova's Mega-Might) and then reverse-engineering it until he can create a version that will work on anyone.
    I could definitely see this as well. Probably without the horrible mutations, at least for the most part. It's be a stop-gap from the perspective of true transhumanism, but a very nice stopgap, and a good tool to buy time.

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  • Astromancer
    replied
    Given that Abberant is about a transformed world, why are the religious factions of the Teragen factions only Abrahamic? (Probably lack of detailed info on the religious beliefs in question).

    Pol Pot was no one's idea of a devout and moral Buddhist but Buddhist ideas of purity were what Pol Pot warped and twisted into his bloodspattered doctrans. One could see both noble and perverse uses of Buddhist, Hindu, Yoraba, Taoist, or other religious paths. Picture a devout Confucian Teragen faction determined as the superior ones to impose social propriety on the USA. The chaos would be awesome.
    Last edited by Astromancer; 07-19-2021, 08:33 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • LordHeru
    replied
    At the 'current' point in Aberrant there is totally enough space in the Teragen movement for both, and in-between, and around, philosophies. Later on things start to crystalize as paths are chosen and others locked out, but at this time the movement is more a 'lets throw darts on the wall to see what sticks'.

    By the way you can believe in Novas as something other than baselines and still believe that baselines deserve some care.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    There's room for both.

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  • Shalmaneser
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I mention it because the social structure of Eden reminds me a lot of what many Teragens would imagine a peaceful relationship between baselines and Novas should look like.
    I suppose that would hinge on whether you think of the Teragen more as Nova Supremacists okay with living alongside baselines as long as they are in charge or Nova Separatists who think baseline-Nova interactions are a hinderance to the development of Novas.

    For an example of why I think it might be the latter in most cases, consider the Edenic defense of the Karoo mining colony. I do not see someone of the likes of Geryon, to pick one example, supporting the idea of Novas fighting and perhaps dying to defend baseline humans.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Bear in mind that at some point before the Aberrant War ends, Eden is founded. I mention it because the social structure of Eden reminds me a lot of what many Teragens would imagine a peaceful relationship between baselines and Novas should look like.

    Also, I don't think that an “uplift the baselines!” project would discover the existence of Talents. The aforementioned Nakamura Process from the Æon era does occasionally result in Talents; but they're not recognized as such: they're viewed as failures who remained baselines instead of becoming Superiors. I doubt that they're be able to discover psiads, either. But I could see them developing a process that creates an Aberrant-era counterpart of the Æon-era sub-Aberrants: enhanced baselines (specifically, no Quantum trait) who have the equivalent of Mega-Attributes, Mega-Edges, and/or Quantum Powers that were granted to them through Super-Science techniques. I say “the equivalent of” because this can't be done as Q-Tech; the only way to do it is as novatech, which generally starts by creating a Q-Tech version (e.g., a drug that can boost a Nova's Mega-Might) and then reverse-engineering it until he can create a version that will work on anyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shalmaneser
    replied
    Perhaps a few of the Teragen would work on actually being Nova separatists, and try to start building a society consisting only of Novas, instead of Novas living in baseline cities, eating baseline food, using baseline infrastructure, entertaining themselves with Nova-scale versions of baseline politics and games, etc. Presumably they'd start with agriculture and industry and some attempts to influence the Daedalus League.

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  • Deadmanwalking
    replied
    Originally posted by Darksol-aeternium View Post
    I like these ideas, they sound somewhat like an attempt in one of my older games. It's worth noting that a team of dedicated nova scientists trying to mass-erupt all of baseline humanity are probably going to discover (quickly) that there are 2 other options for them to choose from. This revelation might then be followed with the sentiment "well, ANYTHING is better than mere baseline" and have that faction running around trying to create demi-prometheus chambers to activate psiads or something similar to trigger Daredevils. That could get out of hand pretty quickly as they start "selling" powers to whomever the process sticks to. Even if there's a chance of fatality people would pay any price.

    I think based on current canon that latents can potentially go in any of the three directions (the 'nova potential' that is detected to make Superiors in Aeon's Nippon sometimes results in Talents when put through their process, for example), or at least many of them can, so whether this is quite how it'd work out is an interesting question. A pseudo-Prometheus chamber to turn such latents into Novas is definitely one of the earlier and more workable stages of the 'transhumanism' plan, though.
    Last edited by Deadmanwalking; 07-19-2021, 02:27 AM.

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  • Darksol-aeternium
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post

    A Teragen faction that acknowledges that there isn't a clear-cut divide between baseline and Nova in the sense that “all Novas are sovereign and not subject to human laws” implies, but still insists that Novas can and often do develop to the point that they are to baselines as humans are to dogs, and which is pushing for cultural and legal changes to accommodate that continuum of states of being, would be something to look into. I could see that pairing up nicely with the “let's figure out how to turn everyone into Novas!” idea that was floated earlier, with terms like “human”, “transhuman”, and “posthuman” being thrown around to describe the gradual shift from baseline to unique godlike entity.
    I like these ideas, they sound somewhat like an attempt in one of my older games. It's worth noting that a team of dedicated nova scientists trying to mass-erupt all of baseline humanity are probably going to discover (quickly) that there are 2 other options for them to choose from. This revelation might then be followed with the sentiment "well, ANYTHING is better than mere baseline" and have that faction running around trying to create demi-prometheus chambers to activate psiads or something similar to trigger Daredevils. That could get out of hand pretty quickly as they start "selling" powers to whomever the process sticks to. Even if there's a chance of fatality people would pay any price.

    Leave a comment:

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