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  • Evolved psiads.

    Let's assume that a doyen for some reason created a prometheus chamber to just generally enhance the psionic capability of humanity, a psiad based chamber, applying the same boost psions got. Or, it you want, it was a crazy alien gadget, or maybe even the bad cheese someone ate last night.

    But ultimately, what would "evolved" psiads look like? how would they differ from psions, if both were in the same setting?

    My first thought is that they still don't get the easy ways to combine powers psions get, so that even if they can access higher tiers of power than "natural" psiads, they still run into issues compared to a group of psions working together. Another possibility might be higher limit in terms of dot cap for various psionic modes.

    What dost thou think?

  • #2
    I think the most likely answer you’re going to get is that they’ll look like psions with whatever limitation individual readers don’t like removed. (Or looking at it another way, they’ll look just like psiads but remove any limitations individuals don’t like.)


    Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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    • #3
      Well, I suppose that the advanced psions would be created by enhanced and uncapped Prometheus Chambers. so, I'd say it'd be something greater than current psiads, greater than the psions, and equal/lesser to the Doyen.

      The example Doyens do not have 7 in every mode. What's strange, since the doyen did make the chambers that got the proxies 7 psi and 7 in all their preferred modes - all at once. Either the doyen got much better in psionic and genetic theory after they botched their ascensions (and could make a chamber that made 7s in all modes in all aptitudes), or (less boringly), there is a hard limit on how many 7s you can get. From that, I can say the advanced psiads shouldn't be able to reach 7 in every conceivable mode due to whatever chamber and genetic advancements.

      Psiads would have the support bonuses that psions have, from the chambers, and would be able to do enhance themselves with different aptitudes. (By the way, I assume that the doyen are able to do the same.) They also would be able to do many combination effects from these aptitudes, for extra flexibility (such as the biokinesys/vitakinesys combo for permanent changes).

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      • #4
        If it was I who would describe the next step of psiad evolution, I would allow Psiads to reach Psi 7 and 5 dots in every mode.

        Than, you have Favored Aptitude and Strong Mode that allow you to reach 6 dot in a single mode.

        I would make new Psionic Edges, one that allow you to increase by 1 dot all the modes of their favorite aptitude (what would allow you to reach 7 in a mode with Strong Mode), one that align the amount of psi points the psiad get with what psions get, and 1 that allow the psiad to empower each other like psions do (considering the psiad as a Psion of the same aptitude as their Favorite Aptitude)

        That set of small steps would put a psiad in the same level as a Doyen (7 in one aptitude and 5 in all the others)

        Edit: I would not change the XP cost of psiads. Psion are genetically enchanted to become masters in their aptitude, what is not the case for psiads.

        Additionally, I would make all children of psions be automatically psiads capable of reaching psi 7, but the slow evolution would point them to enter the chamber to empower themselves (make it easier to evolve), as no one really knows how far they can go without a chamber.
        Last edited by Mateus Luz; 10-18-2021, 08:16 AM.


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        • #5
          This has always been something of a curiosity for me, specifically why it doesn't exist already (in certain circles). A skilled biokinetic Psiad who has (maybe with some vitakinesis?) who has examined a Psion) should? be able to make many of the improvements on themselves without the limitations (and they can experiment temporarily until they get it right).

          Slightly more difficult, but still possible a skilled biokinetic Psion who has examined a Psiad, should be able to find a way to reconnect the natural pathways etc. again they can experiment temporarily before making the changes permanent.

          I know it is hinted at in the books that the biokinetics are working toward this...

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          • #6
            Psi is not exactly covered by BK, it is in VK (in the case of increasing personal Psi value), and you need 5 dots in Augends to increase it partially and temporarily. What is beyond all but a Psi 6 Psiad with strong mode (Augendis), a absolutely precise situation very hard to get with a very limited number of Psiads.

            Maybe QK could help there using Fundamental, but QK was out of Psiad reach until 2104, and there are not that many Psiads around the world.

            A second point is, until the Psions show up, the understanding of Psi and how it is different from Quantum was limited to very few people (some Terats and high Escalon Æon). Most Psiads would see themselves as Novas/Aberrants and would hide their powers in the risk of persecution and death, and even those that know they are not Aberrants, would still be afraid if being seen as one. Practicing powers is the only way to Psiads evolve, and hiding it is not the easiest way to do so.


            House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
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            • #7
              Psi may not be precisely covered, but the changes made by the prometheous chambers are...I think.

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              • #8
                The boundary between BK and VK are thin and diffused, so it’s hard to say no, but in the mode descriptions the only way to increase Psi is using VK.

                I would say BK (if used in another character) would change the biological/DNA factor of the character, but the Chamber has a noetic template changing component that BK can’t change, while VK can (to certain degree), and can do all the required changes by the,selves (if powerful enough).

                But there are 3 different conditions here, we have Latents, Psions and Psiads, transforming a Latent into a Psion is not just a matter of only biology, so BK would not be capable anyway, maybe a strong latent could be changed in a way that they can evolve into a psiad by themselves later (big question mark there), and maybe it’s possible to break the limits of a psion using BK (another big question mark there).


                House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by econclark View Post
                  This has always been something of a curiosity for me, specifically why it doesn't exist already (in certain circles). A skilled biokinetic Psiad who has (maybe with some vitakinesis?) who has examined a Psion) should? be able to make many of the improvements on themselves without the limitations (and they can experiment temporarily until they get it right).

                  Slightly more difficult, but still possible a skilled biokinetic Psion who has examined a Psiad, should be able to find a way to reconnect the natural pathways etc. again they can experiment temporarily before making the changes permanent.
                  One difficulty is that Psiads don't really get the high level powers that'd allow for permanent changes until they reach Psi 5 or 6, and I doubt many Psiads have hit those milestones.

                  It takes Iatrosis 5 (requiring Psi 6 and an Edge) to make permanent adjustments to someone's underlying noetic template, and even then you cannot grant or remove psionic power; although combining efforts with a Biokinetic may help in that regard.

                  Another would be that Psiads are trying to hide, so generally avoid Psions; they certainly wouldn't want to draw attention by performing a deep genetic scan of a Psion. A successful scan would potentially reveal what Nippon's researchers already know, that Psions contain alien DNA. Would a Psiad looking for a power boost be willing to incorporate alien DNA of unknown origin into themself, especially when commercially available bioapps (also containing alien DNA) can already boost their powers in a variety of ways?

                  There is also the possibility that a Psiad trying to incorporate Psion genetics into themself could either cripple some Aptitudes while boosting another or inadvertently gain the telepathic backdoor put in place by the Doyen.

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                  • #10
                    If a Psiad is passing off rather than just plain hiding...they would have plenty of opportunity to scan their fellows...in which case they may be like...huh maybe that is what gives them that boost let me try...works? maybe if yes make the changes permanent as most/all are DNA based I think. They may also be able to find and break the mental/genetic/psionic barrier put in place by the Doyen on the Psions...Vitakinetics would also be very helpful here...

                    Also, could a skilled Vitakinetic take a Psion that has been through the Prometheous chamber and turn them back to a neutral (like they could with a amphibious human?) I don't see why not, but it seems bad to say yes.

                    It is true I don't think they could turn latents into psiads,

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by econclark View Post
                      Also, could a skilled Vitakinetic take a Psion that has been through the Prometheous chamber and turn them back to a neutral (like they could with a amphibious human?) I don't see why not, but it seems bad to say yes.
                      The Adjust Template power specifically doesn't let you do that. Page 262:
                      In addition, this power cannot be used to create or remove psionic latency or powers, affect Corruption, or change whether someone is an Aberrant or a Talent.
                      At best I'd turn the attempt into an opposed roll, with successes counting as a Complication to buy off before the target can freely use their powers.

                      If the target truly wanted to be rid of their powers, I'd let it work, but follow the rules for using the power to perform a sex change:
                      The patient must voluntarily consent to changes, otherwise they revert to their previous state. The patient can rescind his consent for up to a month
                      after the changes have been made.
                      Last edited by Shepherdboi; 10-18-2021, 06:29 PM.

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