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Aberrant: Defense and Quantum Deflection?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Eternl Knight View Post
    Disagree. They are straight up stated as being for when powers don't cover something the character wants to do but is not covered by powers as written (i.e. it is the rule to cover holes in powers) AND power stunts don't just duplicate power dots. They can be used for "minor" to "major" effects, with what that means being left completely up to the SG. The very example given to describe power stunt use outlines where no power / power dots are duplicated and the number of successes to accomplish the task is set by SG without reference to anything but their own feelings on the matter (i.e. "SG fiat").

    At this point, I'm feeling like the argument is coming from a point of semantics.
    No, it literally says "If it succeeds, apply successes towards the desired Stunt. In general, successes can duplicate dots in another power or effect — one dot per success..." (Bolding mine.) I'm not talking semantics. One of the things you can do with successes from a power stunt is duplicate dots in another power or effect. In the case of melting through a vault door with your flaming body, duplicating QAttack seems like a perfectly reasonable way to do that.

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    • #47
      If your Quantum Aura does wind up being able to affect your environment, you don't have to worry only about your held possessions, you also have to worry about where you're standing. Depending on the type and intensity of your aura, you could wind up damaging or even destroying the floor beneath your feet. In that case, I suspect taking the time to perform a Power Stunt would be appropriate to remove the effect from your lower legs, at the cost of giving opponents a safe target to attack.

      If Quantum Aura is able to enhance attacks, maybe the apparent lack of Scale is on purpose, to keep characters with multiple dots in the Power from using it as a more useful alternative to Quantum Attack. If buying 5 levels of Quantum Aura gave you all the benefits of a close ranged level 5 Quantum Attack, plus the ability to damage anyone who enters melee with you, all with a Maintained duration and half the Quantum Point cost, a lot of people wouldn't bother to buy Quantum Attack. They wouldn't even need to buy it as a Technique, since performing a Power Stunt doesn't require them to spend 12 xp.

      I'd consider allowing a character with Quantum Aura to take something like the Might Tag from Quantum Anima, which grants might Scale when using the power to move objects. So additional levels of Quantum Aura would default to doing greater amounts of Scale 1 damage, with each purchase of the Tag upping the Scale. Between that and the issue of potentially damaging objects you didn't mean to damage, it becomes less of a must buy option.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Florin View Post
        No, it literally says "If it succeeds, apply successes towards the desired Stunt. In general, successes can duplicate dots in another power or effect — one dot per success..." (Bolding mine.) I'm not talking semantics.
        It literally follows that with "...or cause some dramatic effect, ranging from minor with one success to truly massive with five or more successes". Come on, at this point you aren't just differing in interpretation - you're deliberately leaving out half the sentence you're quoting. I have the rulebook too, I quite literally read that paragraph just before posting. Give me some credit, mate.

        To you, duplicating QAttack is reasonable, to me a minor or major effect based on Scale is reasonable. We can differ on that, but please don't act like I can't read the rules as well as you can. It is insulting and, frankly, feels deliberately so.

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        • #49
          Sorry. I wasn't trying to be insulting. I was reading that as you stating the rules said you couldn't duplicate the effects of other powers. However, I went back and re-read it, and that wasn't what you said.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by econclark View Post
            Finally, now I am thinking of having a nova that has the "Impose" tag on their Quantum Aura, and uses it to put the Aura around objects that can then be thrown or put as obstacles (Make a door flaming to throw-off pursuit. Impose, unlike Bestow does not impose conditions on what it is applied to (just a target).
            Impose cannot be applied to objects, only to people.

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            • #51
              As Timecrafter said.

              If you want something like Gambit, or a slow burning, better go for Quantum Attack with a restriction of needing ammunition, and describe the effect as an explosion or a area effect with certain duration.


              House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
              Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
              Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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              • #52
                in fact, I created a power just for this ("putting a power into an object"). It'll be in my upcoming nexus book.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by econclark View Post
                  Finally, now I am thinking of having a nova that has the "Impose" tag on their Quantum Aura, and uses it to put the Aura around objects that can then be thrown or put as obstacles (Make a door flaming to throw-off pursuit. Impose, unlike Bestow does not impose conditions on what it is applied to (just a target).
                  Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                  If you want something like Gambit, or a slow burning, better go for Quantum Attack with a restriction of needing ammunition, and describe the effect as an explosion or a area effect with certain duration.
                  I'm with Mateus on this one. Quantum Attack is very much a "mechanical effect onto which you super-impose your own narrative/visual effects" type power. It represents everything from laser beams from your eyes through adamantine claws that cut can steel all the way to exploding orbs of power you "throw" at your target.

                  Whilst the (relatively rare) use of Gambit's "delayed explosion" ability isn't covered by Quantum Attack, the ability to throw an exploding card, rock, etc at a target to cause damage is mechanically the same. The dice pool is "Aim + Dexterity" for the throwing, Quantum/2 as Damage Enhancement, and Scale that grows with Quantum Attack dots. Use the Explosive (Ranged) power tag to represent it exploding & affecting everyone around where it hits, and perhaps Variable(1) to allow charging up the objects more (Brutal) or less (Non-Lethal).

                  Gambit's "delayed explosion" or "triggered by touch explosion" abilities I would have to think about. Given the relative rarity of use, a power stunt would likely cover that use but if it's a more common thing, I'm not sure how to go about that if you needed it.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Timecrafter View Post

                    Impose cannot be applied to objects, only to people.

                    While I think you are correct that the text clearly indicates that imposing or bestowing was intended for use on people, I'm not so sure I'd go as far as saying they cannot be used on non-person targets. Bestow refers to "subject" before giving specific information about the types of people that can or cannot have a power bestowed. Impose refers to "target" and again gives specific information about the tag's interactions with specific types of people. But, neither tag expressly restricts use to only people. I'd probably allow it on a case by case basis.

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                    • #55
                      Sounds like a job for Ask A Dev!!!

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                      • #56
                        Reading again Bestow and Impose, I would say Bestow needs some kind of conscious mind to work, while it would work in objects, it would not work because the object would not have the will to use it, while impose would work on anything.

                        For example, Impose is one of the main tags of Teleport, used to transport other things (basically transmassion mode of Teleport, without the return effect), so it must work on objects too.

                        But, when the power is given to a target (person or probably an object), it won’t damage the target, so unless you give a self destruction effect, the flaming object will remain burning without damaging itself for as long the powers lasts.

                        Again, not the use for mimicking Gambit’s timed explosion, but a power stunt may be the deal for that, something like impose self destruction explosion.
                        Last edited by Mateus Luz; 01-17-2022, 04:45 AM.


                        House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                        Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                        Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                          Again, not the use for mimicking Gambit’s timed explosion, but a power stunt may be the deal for that, something like impose self destruction explosion.
                          Don't disagree with anything else you said. I think, reading the rules as written, Impose would work for most of it.

                          The issue I have with the above is that "power stunts" read (to me) like their meant to cover "exceptions", not be a "regular power" thing. Using the Gambit power as the example, the thrown items ALWAYS explode (though oddly, not the stave/bo he uses in melee), not occasionally when he wants them too. In fact, having things NOT explode would seem to be the exception here.

                          That said, I don't really think it needs a special rule for the general case. Make a note that the power needs (& consumes) small objects for purposes of the attack (so a clever SG can make it a negative Condition every now & then) and call it a day. We don't go into the details of a gun "destroying" the bullets it uses up because it's too low level. Same applies here for throwing cards, marbles, or whatever other small objects come to hand. For using the power to expressly destroy a Macguffin important to the story then make use of a Power Stunt. Until then, it's no more important to make a mechanic out of the ammo's destruction for this ability than it is for exploding arrows and armour-piercing bullets.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Eternl Knight View Post
                            Don't disagree with anything else you said. I think, reading the rules as written, Impose would work for most of it.

                            The issue I have with the above is that "power stunts" read (to me) like their meant to cover "exceptions", not be a "regular power" thing. Using the Gambit power as the example, the thrown items ALWAYS explode (though oddly, not the stave/bo he uses in melee), not occasionally when he wants them too. In fact, having things NOT explode would seem to be the exception here.

                            That said, I don't really think it needs a special rule for the general case. Make a note that the power needs (& consumes) small objects for purposes of the attack (so a clever SG can make it a negative Condition every now & then) and call it a day. We don't go into the details of a gun "destroying" the bullets it uses up because it's too low level. Same applies here for throwing cards, marbles, or whatever other small objects come to hand. For using the power to expressly destroy a Macguffin important to the story then make use of a Power Stunt. Until then, it's no more important to make a mechanic out of the ammo's destruction for this ability than it is for exploding arrows and armour-piercing bullets.
                            Sure, I was thinking more like Gambit, usually its all about exploding cards, and once in a while he can explode an entire door, but if the idea is to make it regular, I would create a power or technique just for that.

                            I still think the idea for the exploding thing is Quantum Attack with explosion tag, not going for a Quantum Aura with sef destruction.


                            House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                            Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                            Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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                            • #59
                              I think Gambit is better described by Quantum Attack, no question about that from me.


                              I also believe that Impose does allow for imposing onto inanimate objects. However, I agree that bestow cannot/is useless if you do (it needs to be activated by whatever it was bestowed to). That is where some of the fun comes in.

                              For Quantum Aura, it doesn't have to be something thrown, that is just an option to get the Aura some range. However, I do like the idea of extremely deadly Bouncy Balls rocketing around the room taking out random mooks.I actually think that it would be generally more useful on doors etc. Particularly if you can also buy the Subtle tag (think extreme heat but no flames)...You can pretty effectively cut-off/slow down most pursuit. Quantum Construct can do this in a less damaging but more versatile way. (Molecular manipulation can also take care of most doors (either removing or creating a barrier)).

                              I do like the idea of putting Quantum Aura on doors, but also other's armor (pretty easy and devastating) or weapons (harder).

                              I think that unless the nova also has the immunity tag, they may also be effected by the Quantum Auras that they place on items/others...not 100% on that and they can always cancel it, but they may carry around an ove-glove for those situations.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                                Sure, I was thinking more like Gambit, usually its all about exploding cards, and once in a while he can explode an entire door, but if the idea is to make it regular, I would create a power or technique just for that.

                                I still think the idea for the exploding thing is Quantum Attack with explosion tag, not going for a Quantum Aura with sef destruction.
                                Oh, I agree with all that. If I were putting it together, Gambit's powers on the character sheet (for this specific ability at least) would be along the lines of:

                                Molecular Acceleration: Quantum Attack 4 [ Variable(4) ] - Charges objects with kinetic energy so that they explode or hit with increased power.
                                Variable options include:
                                - Charged Small Object: Explosive(Ranged, 2), Destructive(2) - requires small object to throw, which is destroyed (flavour)
                                - Charged Melee Weapon: Destructive(2), Deadly(1), Charge(1) - requires a melee weapon made of metal or other dense material (flavour)

                                And if the player wants to use it to explode a door or similar, I'd call for a power stunt.

                                Think the confusion here is that we've gotten side-tracked by me mentioning Gambit & Bishop as examples of using/abusing Absorption. Quantum Aura really isn't a Gambit thing at all.


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