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  • Originally posted by IanWatson View Post


    In the sense of an oversight organization over the psi orders? That's basically the Aeon Trinity. Or the UN. Depending on how you look at it.
    No, I mean an oversight organization over the psi orders and Aeon Trinity. After the debacle with the Aeon-sponsored Project Utopia, it's hard to believe the member nations of the UN, especially China and the FSA, wouldn't have a group like under their direct control like the Directive was during the Nova Age.Is there a group with a similar creation Path in Aeon? How would it be different?

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    • Is the level one Vitakinetic power Misfire almost useless in most situations for many starting players, or am I missing something in the rules that'd make this more effective?

      It looks like your attack roll and the Misfire roll are totally separate, which seems good to me. It also costs nothing to use, which is great, but has a Difficulty equal to your target's Stamina. Extra successes are then spent on applying levels of a scene-long complication to the target.

      So if you start off with Psi 2 and drop one dot in Algesis to give your Vitakinetic an innate attack option, you're rolling three dice against a Difficulty which is likely somewhere between 3 and 5? And only then do you get to spend any extra successes to start applying penalties? That seems unlikely to work all that often.

      Are there attack mechanics/options I'm missing that'd boost my dice pool/successes enough that I'm reasonably likely to affect someone with a decent Stamina? Is Misfire simply supposed to be a rare bonus add-on-effect your starting character gets for free when punching or stabbing someone? Can you use it while stabbing someone? Is the "victim also reacts normally to these responses" part of the text so useful that the effect is worth it even if the target doesn't suffer actual Complications?

      On the other side of the spectrum, someone with Psi 5, Algesis 5, and Favored Mode would be rolling 10 dice and getting Enhancement 6 (2 from Favored Mode + 4 from Algesis), so it looks like they could reliably inflict some pretty hefty negative effects on even a tough Aberrant.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Shepherdboi View Post
        Is the level one Vitakinetic power Misfire almost useless in most situations for many starting players, or am I missing something in the rules that'd make this more effective?
        I’d say that you’re both missing things that can help a low-level Misfire, as well as having unrealistic expectations about what the lowest level attacking power should be able to do when wielded by the lowest level user.

        Let’s look at that second issue first. Misfire is the only 1-dot attack power. Every other Mode begins with attacks at 2-dots or higher. And its effects are broadly applicable to enemy suffering for the entire scene. So it’s not a powerful attack at the start, but it’s probably on par with any other attack a character can come up with that they only have 3 dice in. 3 dice in any attack with no Enhancement is rarely going to yield success. You also need to look at context. It ignores armor, so against an armored target you don’t have to deal with that issue. It’s also a touch attack, so you don’t need to try and Inflict Damage or anything for it to try and work - you don’t even need to try and attack if the target’s not alarmed and actively trying to avoid contact with you. A handshake or a light brush will do. It can also be used defensively. If it looks like the opponent might try to touch or grab your character, activate it and let them make the contact. In this way you’re not having to overcome their Defense at all and Stamina is the only impediment.

        So, how do low level characters increase their chances? You already note in your example of a high powered use of Algesis that Favored Mode is a thing. That’s one way of increasing the effectiveness of Misfire, adding 2 Enhancement. Combining your Aptitudes with other psions is another way, and can be quite useful for lower-level psions. But maybe your character is alone and can’t take advantage of that. IADs are a thing that aren’t difficult for psions to justify or acquire - especially not Vitakinetics. Using one of those gives +1 Psi for your dice pools and +1 Mode accessibility. This at least gives an extra die to the dice pool.

        But ultimately, the way to increase the effectiveness of Misfire is the same way as increasing the effectiveness of most powers - increase dots in the Mode or Psi and get stronger at it. And adjust expectations of how combat-powerful the literally lowest level attack power in the game is going to be when wielded by the theoretically lowest possible ability user.


        Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
          I’d say that you’re both missing things that can help a low-level Misfire, as well as having unrealistic expectations about what the lowest level attacking power should be able to do when wielded by the lowest level user.

          Let’s look at that second issue first. Misfire is the only 1-dot attack power. Every other Mode begins with attacks at 2-dots or higher. And its effects are broadly applicable to enemy suffering for the entire scene. So it’s not a powerful attack at the start, but it’s probably on par with any other attack a character can come up with that they only have 3 dice in. 3 dice in any attack with no Enhancement is rarely going to yield success.
          I don't think my expectations are particularly unrealistic when my only expectation is that a power I purchase does SOMETHING with a reasonable degree of frequency.

          To test out my basic premise, I rolled the 3d10 power dice pool a total of 20 times. Not really mathematically valid, but it does illustrate my point. As expected, about 1/3 of the time I got at least 1 success. One success means that - against an opponent with Stamina 1 - the effect works, but I don't have any extra successes with which to apply complications, so the target feels a bit itchy, dizzy, etcetera without taking any explicit penalties; this isn't too bad, but sadly only applies to those rare opponents with Stamina 1.

          Two of my rolls came up with two successes. That'll let me apply a one point complication to the Stamina 1 guy, or make a Stamina 2 guy a bit itchy. One single roll actually came up with a total of three successes. That lets me apply two levels of complications to Stamina 1 guy, one to Stamina 2 guy, and vague itchiness to Stamina 3 guy. An embarrassingly small chance of making a reasonably fit opponent slightly uncomfortable seems very underwhelming.
          Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
          You also need to look at context. It ignores armor, so against an armored target you don’t have to deal with that issue. It’s also a touch attack, so you don’t need to try and Inflict Damage or anything for it to try and work - you don’t even need to try and attack if the target’s not alarmed and actively trying to avoid contact with you. A handshake or a light brush will do. It can also be used defensively. If it looks like the opponent might try to touch or grab your character, activate it and let them make the contact. In this way you’re not having to overcome their Defense at all and Stamina is the only impediment.
          Which are all great, but still very underwhelming. In scenarios where I actually need to make an attack roll, I need to make that roll, then make a second roll for Misfire. This makes the odds of successfully using the power even lower, and will usually result in raising false hopes before dashing them when Misifre fizzles yet again. Don't most psionic attacks require only a single roll to work?

          Not having to make an attack roll under certain circumstances isn't a selling point either, when there are all sorts of non-psychic powered attacks that can benefit from the same approach. You've also got the problem that - unlike some guy in armor or an obvious Aberrant - you literally have no idea until you attack whether your target can even realistically be effected, since you can't easily differentiate between Stamina 3 and Stamina 5 when targeting a clothed opponent.
          Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
          So, how do low level characters increase their chances? You already note in your example of a high powered use of Algesis that Favored Mode is a thing. That’s one way of increasing the effectiveness of Misfire, adding 2 Enhancement. Combining your Aptitudes with other psions is another way, and can be quite useful for lower-level psions. But maybe your character is alone and can’t take advantage of that. IADs are a thing that aren’t difficult for psions to justify or acquire - especially not Vitakinetics. Using one of those gives +1 Psi for your dice pools and +1 Mode accessibility. This at least gives an extra die to the dice pool.

          But ultimately, the way to increase the effectiveness of Misfire is the same way as increasing the effectiveness of most powers - increase dots in the Mode or Psi and get stronger at it. And adjust expectations of how combat-powerful the literally lowest level attack power in the game is going to be when wielded by the theoretically lowest possible ability user.
          I did note that the power only seemed "almost useless" for "many starting players". I admit that it is quite useful for someone willing to go all in on the death touch approach, but most players aren't going to do that. My example character is just some guy who wanted a weak attack option added to his primary repertoire. Pumping up the dice pool does help, but it isn't actually helping most starting players.

          Beyond that, look at the options you provided. Favored Mode would definitely help, but isn't something you'd willingly waste on a secondary/tertiary option you added to round out your character. The only people taking Algesis as a Favored Mode are likely the ones who were going all in anyway. An IAD would definitely be something any Vitakinetic would want to take, but has a cost of 3. This means you can't start with one unless you have Wealth 4, Wealth 3 and are willing to get dropped to Wealth 2 for awhile, or Bioware Access 1, which requires you to work for Orgotech. Why would you do any of that if you only wanted some sort of marginally useful melee option?

          Rather than this all in or nothing happens approach, my expectation for "how combat-powerful the literally lowest level attack power in the game is going to be when wielded by the theoretically lowest possible ability user" is something that provides some small benefit on a reasonably consistent basis, much like most of the other level one powers. For example:

          I hit the guy and then successfully use Misfire. His eyes are slightly unfocused, giving him 1 Complication to Aim for Mode dots times Duration.

          I hit the guy and then successfully use Misfire. His hands feel a bit weak, giving him 1 Complication to Close Combat for Mode dots times Duration.

          I hit the guy and then successfully use Misfire. His nausea gives him 1 Complication to Persuasion since he looks sick for Mode dots times Duration.

          I'm fine with that happening (and not even being stackable) about 1/3 of the time my brand new character manages to hit. I'm even fine with the target being able to take an action to shake off the effect early, maybe with a difficulty equal to Mode dots. I just want it to happen often enough for me to feel like I've accomplished something, rather than rolling dice round after round after round in one scene after another, accomplishing nothing with the power I purchased.

          For a high level character with a better dice pool, I'd maybe be able to spend one or two bonus successes to add a complication to a second dice pool, or possibly spend two or three successes to increase the complication's severity. That'd keep it useful at high levels without making it useless to beginners or dabblers.

          While I know I'm able to adjust the rules in my own games, I just wanted to make certain I wasn't missing anything important in the RAW before resorting to house rules. Apparently I wasn't.

          Comment


          • Some questions which came up during game:

            1. When a Biokinetic combines with a Teleporter, they can use their Biokinesis over an area. Would that allow a Biokinetic to use Enhance on the group, assuming they were the only people in the area of effect?

            2. Assuming the Biok can use Enhance on the group, how much Psi do they have to commit to maintain the effect? 1 for Enhance, 2 for Enhance + combining, 1 or 2 per person being Enhanced?

            3. Do the Teleporter and Biok have to stay linked the entire time people are Enhanced?

            4. Transference. Are the Enhancements and Complications created by it for all actions?

            Comment


            • Random question. So in Biokinesis there is a regeneration power that can restore lost Brain. Does this mean a Psion with that power who has lost his own brain in an attack (but is still alive) use the power to regrow his brain like the dude from MIB who is shot and regrows a head.

              If so, that's cooooool!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Florin View Post
                Some questions which came up during game:

                1. When a Biokinetic combines with a Teleporter, they can use their Biokinesis over an area. Would that allow a Biokinetic to use Enhance on the group, assuming they were the only people in the area of effect?
                No. Combining BK powers with a teleporter doesn’t change that BK can only target their own noetic template. You need to throw a vitakinetic into the mix to be able to access the noetic templates of others. If you combine a BK and a teleporter, you can use BK powers on anyone with the same noetic template within the area of effect - ie, biokinetic flesh creations (Imbue Instinct) or clones (Clone). But not on different templates.

                However, if you do combine the BK/teleporter with a VK, then you can achieve this effect, yes. The VK gives you access to the multiple noetic templates, the teleporter gives you area of effect, and the BK alters the templates within the area. Note that because this is an area of effect, and not additional targets (like telepathy provides) you’d be targeting everyone at once.

                Originally posted by Florin View Post
                2. Assuming the Biok can use Enhance on the group, how much Psi do they have to commit to maintain the effect? 1 for Enhance, 2 for Enhance + combining, 1 or 2 per person being Enhanced?
                The cost to maintain would be based on the cost spent doing the effect, as per p.206. As Enhance costs 1 Psi point, that’s (1 Psi per target affected) +1 for the linked powers. (The other members of the link must also pay this 1 Psi point or the BKs effect fails.) Whatever that costs the biokinetic, that’s how much she keeps committed.

                Originally posted by Florin View Post
                3. Do the Teleporter and Biok have to stay linked the entire time people are Enhanced?
                Yes and no. They don’t have to remain linked (and I’m counting a VK in this group as per above), but once the link is severed the BK loses access to the noetic templates and can no longer indefinitely sustain the power. The BK changes will then only last for the remainder of the power’s time (Mode dots x Duration) unless this has already been exceeded, in which case the transformations end instantly, as per p.206.

                Originally posted by Florin View Post
                4. Transference. Are the Enhancements and Complications created by it for all actions?
                Yes. High level QKs are a significant force multiplier for psions against Aberrants.

                Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
                Random question. So in Biokinesis there is a regeneration power that can restore lost Brain. Does this mean a Psion with that power who has lost his own brain in an attack (but is still alive) use the power to regrow his brain like the dude from MIB who is shot and regrows a head.

                If so, that's cooooool!
                Yes, if the BK is powerful enough. She needs to have at least 5-dots in Adaptation (the ‘Survive’ power) to do so. As per the rules on p.211, Adaptation always tries to activate to protect the psion. Whenever the psion encounters a circumstance that Adaptation could defend against, the power automatically uses a reflexive action on behalf of the character. This requires no conscious effort, but she must have sufficient Psi points to trigger the effect and still makes an activation roll for the power to work. Automatic activation only applies to techniques the character has sufficient dots for. Though she can push herself to use more difficult powers, these won't activate automatically.

                Without this, the massive brain trauma is likely to kill her, but will also inhibit her ability to consciously use Psi.


                Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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                • Starting from the answer Bunyip give above, can a Psiad combine BK and VK to shape change others by himself?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                    Starting from the answer Bunyip give above, can a Psiad combine BK and VK to shape change others by himself?
                    A psiad - yes.


                    Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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                    • Thanks, Bunyip.

                      Comment


                      • hashtagNOTADEVELOPER but to quote Bunyip from Elsewhere-

                        Originally posted by Bunyip
                        I’ve not sat down and worked out the nuances of various combination effects, but off the top of my head, if the psiad is just looking at temporarily transforming the recipient for the power’s duration, and not have it a permanent change, I’d let the psiad use a biokinetic power they actually have dots for on another person if they have 2-3 dots (combined) across Iatrosis and Augendis (to allow them to access the target’s noetic template in a constructive way). If you’re looking for permanent changes, I’d say that’s Adjust Template and will cost the recipient XP.


                        One day I’ll write up some guidelines for combining powers. I’m not sure if there’ll be space in an official book or whether I’ll do something to the Storypath Nexus once it opens up for TC worlds. At the moment, as a very vague general rule, you look at the powers involved and figure out which are making the effect, and which are facilitating access. For those making the effect you have to have sufficient dots for what you want to do. For those facilitating access, you may or may not need to have sufficient dots, as long as you have some dots. It depends on the overall effect. For the example you asked, you can see that BK is doing the heavy lifting of the effect, and VK is just facilitating access to the noetic template. So you don’t need a lot of dots of VK, just enough to access another being’s template and let BK do its work. If it was a permanent change, VK would be doing some heavy lifting (as permanent alteration of the living noetic template is a VK thing), and you would need the right dots.




                        To make this post a question, do you have a favorite combination of powers? Is it the above VK/BK oogly woogly?


                        Raksha are my fae-vorite.

                        Reincarnation of magnificentmomo.

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                        • @ The Devs

                          We have waited for Trinity 2.0 for nearly 20 years, and as such, we’re now knee-deep in preparation of our first session in gleeful anticipation. Reading the books together, sadly we have found a few things that are unclear to us as of yet, as I/we are maybe … idiots, it seems. Clarifications would be most appreciated.
                          • How many contacts do I actually get during character creation? Page 40 states that “She begins play with a single Contact.”, but under character generation on page 36/37 it is stated that you receive one contact per path. Which statement is right? Should the sentence above be changed to “… for each path.” for clarification?
                          • Is it essential to determine at the beginning of a round which character will take which initiative slot? Could this be handled like in Star Wars/Genesys instead, where the players basically can choose on a whim who takes which initiative slot (although no one is allowed to take more than one slot per round)? Would this change the game somehow?
                          • If would have been nice to state somewhere in the combat chapter that you automatically deal an Injury Condition on a successful attack roll without any additional successes needed if the opponent doesn’t wear any armor. As such, you have to infer this out of the combat example at the end of the chapter. Or is this stated somewhere, and we just didn’t see it? If so, my aplogies.
                          • Can Defense be reduced to 0 (due to conditions etc.)?
                          • Injury Conditions are basically Health Levels, right? What do the modifiers of each Injury Condition mean (Bruised +1, Injured +2 etc.)? Are these the modifiers added to the base difficulty of 1 for the First Aid Check to treat these? I inferred this for myself, but again, it would be nice to state this somewhere, as it already has confused 2 of our 4 players.
                          • How does First Aid exactly work? What does it exactly do – does it downgrade Injury Conditions (i.e. health boxes) or Injury Complications? Am I right in the assumption that, as it is written, it can only be applied to the weakest Injury a character is suffering from, as it needs empty health boxes below Injured and Maimed to be usable for those? Basically a medic has to treat a patients bruises first before he can treat the spear in his chest? And does the sentence “Downgrading doesn’t mean the character isn’t in pain from his wound, just that he isn’t suffering ill effects from it anymore.” have any mechanical effect, or is it just fluff?
                          • Why are the rules for illnesses and diseases in the Aeon book, not in the Trinity book, as well as the additional environmental sources of damage? As the Triton Foundation is described in the Trinity book, and their main focus is to eradicate diseases, wouldn’t it be appropriate to include the rules here instead of in another book?
                          Generally we’ve found that a few passages (especially in the combat chapter) would’ve benefited greatly from a little more concise choice of words, as you can see above. We hope that our first hands-on experiences playing it will iron out these hick-ups, at least for us, though.

                          One last (personal) remark I have to make – with a heavy heart: Most of our players (me included) thought the choice of artwork for page 100 of the Trinity book was rather inappropriate, and we vocalized our opinion about this independently from one another over the course of our brainstorming session last Saturday. I know art taste is subjective, but we found the picture basically tasteless: “Here, try our new and exciting roleplaying game! This picture of a sniper shooting defenseless civilians confers Heroism, Optimism and Competence, right?I” I know one could say “It’s only a game, don’t be such a pussy.”, but with similar tragedies occurring in real life more and more every day, and as such the probability rising that one of your customers will have actually gone through such an experience as a victim, couldn’t you've just left it out?
                          Last edited by Ser Duncan Pennytree; 10-22-2019, 12:49 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ser Duncan Pennytree View Post
                            [*]How many contacts do I actually get during character creation? Page 40 states that “She begins play with a single Contact.”, but under character generation on page 36/37 it is stated that you receive one contact per path. Which statement is right? Should the sentence above be changed to “… for each path.” for clarification?
                            One per path.

                            [*]Is it essential to determine at the beginning of a round which character will take which initiative slot? Could this be handled like in Star Wars/Genesys instead, where the players basically can choose on a whim who takes which initiative slot (although no one is allowed to take more than one slot per round)? Would this change the game somehow?
                            Whichever method works for you. It's not a strict rule.

                            [*]If would have been nice to state somewhere in the combat chapter that you automatically deal an Injury Condition on a successful attack roll without any additional successes needed if the opponent doesn’t wear any armor. As such, you have to infer this out of the combat example at the end of the chapter. Or is this stated somewhere, and we just didn’t see it? If so, my aplogies.
                            It's not automatic. If you're making an attack where you're not trying to deal damage, like you're going in for a grapple, you don't.

                            Why are the rules for illnesses and diseases in the Aeon book, not in the Trinity book, as well as the additional environmental sources of damage? As the Triton Foundation is described in the Trinity book, and their main focus is to eradicate diseases, wouldn’t it be appropriate to include the rules here instead of in another book?
                            It just worked out that way logistically.

                            This picture of a sniper shooting defenseless civilians confers Heroism, Optimism and Competence, right?
                            Of course not. The art is depicting a villainous act, the kind heroes are meant to stop. Not all the art has to depict the heroes: some will depict the antagonists.


                            Ian A. A. Watson
                            Onyx Path Community Manager
                            Trinity Continuum Content Lead

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                            • Thank you for your answers. Could you be so kind as to elaborate more on the 4th, 5th and 6th question I posted above, as these are the topics our group is stuggling with the most to understand at the moment?
                              Last edited by Ser Duncan Pennytree; 10-22-2019, 05:42 PM.

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                              • Does the transformations cause Momentum when come to play, like other conditions?

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