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  • #16
    Originally posted by Resplendent Fire View Post
    Given what novas can do and what novas were doing per the original Aberrant game line, I don't really see people who are in a position to do something about it ignoring climate change.

    Not dealing with it would likely leave areas completely uninhabitable. Not sure this would make the setting more interesting.

    http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/resea...berLimits.html
    The research you've linked to extrapolates out to 300 years hence to get to that point (21+ degree rise, no wonder it's uninhabitable), by 2100 at our current rate it postulates a 7 degree global increase. That absolute roof of livable earth temperature is still some time off in Aeon/Trinity and if we are still abusing our climate that far into the future i think we will kind of deserve it. Plus, i'm not adverse to some correction, 7 degrees is actually about two degrees hotter than i figured and these predictions are based on current trends continuing un-hindered. We will stain the skies white with magnesium before things get that bad, and it's hard to predict how other weather cycles may react in the process of things even rising a few degrees. Extrapolating out to 300 years at the exact same rate seems to be stretching it out to make a point - who knows what state we will be in by then - but if we're still busy emitting at peak-oil rates; then yeah sure.

    Aberrants can try. But without long term maintenance, something like Zushima just feels like a magic 'get out of extinction' card. Like Firanai mentioned above, Novas may be able to fix the climate for a while - but they won't be addressing the core problem - that's a job for a united humanity in Aeon/Trinity. At which point, at least some of it will be irreversible.
    Disaster brings us together - but at some point this has to become a human responsibility and it seems to me that Aeon/Trinity has the right shoulders to bear it.
    I think new maritime environments, industrial re-freezing efforts, sunken coastal cities and their new mezzanine levels would be an interesting spice to bring the setting more up to date without sacrificing much of the original premise and atmousphere. Sci fi has been doing interesting things with climate change for decades, why not Aeon/Trinity?
    What would we lose?

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    • #17
      The core problem is the continued accumulation of greenhouse gases.

      Novas can and probably did solve the accumulation.

      There's really no reason for this to continue to be a major thing in 2120, unless the world of 2120 is still burning fossil fuels at a high rate. That seems unlikely.

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      • #18
        Where did the novas sink all the carbon? Trees, i suppose?
        And this wasn't affected by Taint later on? Like Zushima wasn't?
        It really speaks to the upward limit of Nova capabilities - if they could fix the environment but not avoid a global war, why didn't they correctly terraform mars during the early missions? Did novas solve all the worlds problems? If so how long did it take them and how did a collection of tincans with nukes manage to get them to leave?
        Humanity needs to play a role in this for their own sake - this is exactly what Donighal wanted in Adventure! - human agency being removed from the equation.
        I think the approach you suggest is fine for the Aberrant Era - in fact with 'Quantum Wibbly' there may not even be a war, but from 2120 Aberrant fallibility is hardwired in. I prefer to let sci-fi convention come before super-heroes in Aeon/Trinity - so i thought that some climate sci-fi would work to compliment the setting.
        Also, removing the greenhouse gasses whole from the atmousphere is impossible to test, and we couldn't be certain other factors are already at play. Don't get me wrong if it could be done it would be a good start - but i wouldn't be surprised if even the vaunted Nova brain began to stall with so much complexity to account for and very little experimentation to build from.
        But, that's kind of off the point now.
        Aberrant and Novas are fine with a shallow utopia, but as time continues, Aeon/Trinity ages terribly alongside academic climate predictions. If we had a fixed timeline, i'd be willing to look more closely at Nova actions, but i'm a little confused right now. These games may be ocurring in different timelines even - ultimately making reconciling them a fool's errand.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Nihilist View Post
          Where did the novas sink all the carbon? Trees, i suppose?
          And this wasn't affected by Taint later on? Like Zushima wasn't?
          It really speaks to the upward limit of Nova capabilities - if they could fix the environment but not avoid a global war, why didn't they correctly terraform mars during the early missions? Did novas solve all the worlds problems? If so how long did it take them and how did a collection of tincans with nukes manage to get them to leave? . . .
          A lot of you guys have been reading too much Aeon propaganda

          Nova powers are rating on a scale of 1-6. Levels one to three are highly localized, "comic book"-type powers, which virtually all novas have access to. Flying or teleporting, healing a wounded kid, shapeshifting . . . things that can have repercussions - or not. It all depends on how the nova uses them, and society reacts.

          Levels four and five are demigod level, what you'd expect from something like a Greek Olympian. Force an evolutionary shift in a species. Link all the humans in New York City together into a giant hive mind. Visit alternate realities. Turn a desert into a green, lush environment. Powers on this scale always have repercussions, but it can take months - or even years - for the effects of the power to fully manifest.

          Level six powers are godlike, in a monotheistic sense. Rain fire from heaven. Assert absolute control over an entire planet - the kind of control that lets you turn the oceans into tapioca. Build your own universe.

          While the first three levels are available from N-Day on, the higher levels are exceedingly rare until the Aberrant War. Even ten years in, only about a dozen novas have access to the level four & five abilities. And Divis Mal, the first nova to achieve a level six power, doesn't reach that ability . . . oh, until about a century after N-Day.

          Plus, novas weren't created in any sort of systematic way. Erupting happens almost randomly, thanks to the genetic lottery. That means there's no guarantee that two novas will even like each other, let alone cooperate on a project. In the psion era, Aeon likes to make it sound like there was some great worldwide conspiracy of novas . . . when there wasn't. Heck, many novas couldn't stand to even be in the same room as each other.

          Now, in the early days of the Aberrant era, Project Utopia did a great job convincing novas to work together on humanitarian projects: overthrowing dictators, curing disease, dismantling organized crime . . . And novas are able to build on each other's work.

          But again, novas are often working at loggerheads to each other. Antaeus used his powers to evolve manatees to better coexist with humans, but Belladonna flooded New York City with super cockroaches, as a form of ecoterrorism. Team Tomorrow novas promote human rights, while Project Proteus novas murder their way through Utopia's opposition, and Devries' Elites turn Africa into a wasteland.

          So, between the factionalism of different novas, and the lack of higher level powers, there are pretty serious limits on what they can achieve. Sure, the Daedelus League (a group of pro-space exploration novas) and the Protectors (survivalist novas) would love to start terraforming other planets . . .but the handful of novas with terraforming powers are "tree huggers" busy improving conditions on Earth

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          • #20
            As for the Aberrant War . . . remember, a lot of those novas were sick, not malicious. For all of Project Utopia's good work, they also set up the conditions for a lot of those bizarre atrocities, by suppressing all research into Taint and its effects on novas. So there are all these novas out there, pursuing ever-greater powers, with no idea of how its hurting them.

            Worse, Utopia does its best to convince the world to hate the Teragen - the only group that actually has an effective way to safely pursue higher level powers (without going completely batshit crazy). So by the time of the Aberrant "War", there are a lot of very sick novas, with severe neurological and other health problems, and few healthy novas to stop them.

            So really, there are two Aberrant Wars. The first, to stop the sick novas, and get them help - even as they melt people's skeletons or plunge continents into blackouts. The destruction of the OpNet is collateral damage, for example, from when the Teragen's Synapse tried to stop the sick Mungu Kuwasha.

            And the second results when Aeon denounces all novas, and supports genocide to get rid of them - even those novas who had been loyal to Aeon's Project Utopia or Team Tomorrow. Divis Mal leads the Teragen (conveniently purged of all opposition during their Night of Long Knives) in a bid to conquer the planet. And China - long accused of running their own anti-nova death camps - threatens to nuke the planet.

            Later, pro-Aeon historians try to lump the two together as one . . . but they're not. Completely different actors, with different motives.



            Edit: When it comes to the Zushima macrobe et al being "Tainted", remember that word means different things in different eras. During the Aberrant era, "Taint" means involuntary expressions of quantum powers by a nova, basically side effects and unwanted mutations. But during the psion/Trinity era, "Taint" also refers to "Quantum (the nova power pool) and anything touched by nova powers.

            So, during the Aberrant era, the Zushima macrobe is just a genetically engineered organism created by a nova. But in Trinity, that makes the macrobe "Tainted" by definition (since it was nova-created)

            (The fact that Proteus tried to tamper with the macrobe to also release compounds to sterilize the populace doesn't help, either. Not that Aeon would ever admit to such tampering, of course . . . . )
            Last edited by One Vorlon; 10-16-2015, 08:49 PM.

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            • #21
              Going back to my commentary about the Zushima and the Nova-induced climate changes...

              First, people, i would like to remember that enviromental issues are not a big deal in either Aeon or Aberrant because they obviously had pagecount limitations and it was not the point of either game - sci-fi-esque action thrillers and superheroics with geopolitics, respectively. Nor i think it should be now even though the setting is taking a number of new directions, so let's cut some slack to the writers here.

              But to run a bit more with it, some important things to remember is that the world is always in flux, so yesterday's solution can end up as today's band-aid or tomorrow's brand new enviromental mess.

              - Oh, they patched up the Ozone layer, but how did they do it exactly? And won't it open itself again in a century or decades due to colaterals of industrial production? how much has CFC and other ozone-breaking gases production diminished, how much more can it be brought down?

              - The Zushima supposedly cleaned the seas. Well, cleaned from what exactly, what substances is it able to break down, which it does not and just accumulates?

              - Is its survival in nature dependant on constant human polution of the seas with metal or petroleum derivatives? If not, what beside these water pollutants might it also consume and destroy?

              - Through being transported by water, could it not end up (by accident or ill-intent) in the wrong places, like refineries and a number of industries dependent on processing petroleum?

              - Could it not result into the potential Zushima accidently consuming parts of the world's oil reserves along with the pollution?

              - Do any marine lifeforms, from microscopic (other micro organisms) to macro- (anything from sponges to plankton-hauling whales) consume it? Could it cause a "quicksilver accumulation" type problem in the long run, where bit by bit greater ammounts of harmful substances are passed along to lifeforms higher in the food chain? If not, what about overpopulation?

              - Does it in any way compete with already existing marine lifeforms? If so, how could it potentially disrupt any related ecological niches?
              Even without someone messing with it for plot-devicey reason, there's lots of complications that might enter the equation in the long run and all it takes is someone not watching further developments with the due attention. And a big, bad war where a lot of Nova-related infrastructure - and related files - was obliterated can count as a pretty huge case "not watching at all", should be said...

              Beside this, there is the just as wide but possibly far more immediate issue of leftovers from Nova-created technologies or experiments that might be abandoned or hidden by groups all over the world - because why would all governments equally agree to dismantle or deliver to Utopia their one-of-a-kind wonders, specially when the crazy geniuses that made them are forever gone, or worse, set to return one day be as enemies of a mostly unprepared humanity? Much wiser to hoard the most one can for studies in reverse-engineering and keepsake for the case of an emergency, some people might say - and they might not even be self-serving or wrong in saying it - but it means a lot of secreted away pandora's boxes to watch out for...

              And then there's the issue of morally questionable issues and works - like anything involving high-scale mental/social manipulation and reprogramming, the production of certain drugs, or even potential advancement in the sector of production or synthetization of "super-soldier/nova-aping" drugs like 'Mite, Red 7, Soma and any other new developments that might have appeared in the intervening decades.

              Anyway, a whole huge bag of crazy to watch out for.

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              • #22
                A few things to remember when discussing climate change, and the Aeon Continuum one if the Abberant War happened throwing a few nukes around will have vast environmental impact. Second the fluctuations of the ocean i.e. flooding Florida as well as any alteration of the gulf/jet streams will severely impact the climate. Third at least in the Aeon setting the crash of the Space Station that creates the shellfish environment of France will throw up a lot of debris enough to impact the world's climate at least in the short term.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by lncbill View Post
                  A few things to remember when discussing climate change, and the Aeon Continuum one if the Abberant War happened throwing a few nukes around will have vast environmental impact. Second the fluctuations of the ocean i.e. flooding Florida as well as any alteration of the gulf/jet streams will severely impact the climate.
                  It all depends on scale - the nuking of Paris (i think) was more of a MAD policy-inspired desperation move/threat than part of a larger initiative, at least as portrayed in what books i can remember seeing, so there's a very good chance that it didn't go much beyond that (though it would suck mightly to be french in that context). And if it did go farther, well, Novas weren't ever an incredibly large population and when they do concentrate (what would make nuking a viable tactic) it tends to be by dozens in certain urban centers, what could mean targets in the range of hundreds mostly, bad but not exactly Day After critical enviromentally.

                  It would be quite another matter from a human/economic/technologic standpoint, as many of the places where one might find Novas in large numbers would some of the world's most developed metropolises.

                  Originally posted by lncbill View Post
                  Third at least in the Aeon setting the crash of the Space Station that creates the shellfish environment of France will throw up a lot of debris enough to impact the world's climate at least in the short term.
                  With reentry on the way? I'm not all that certain, honestly. It takes a lot of intensely heat-resistant matter to do serious harm - and that without counting how much of the world's surface is ocean.

                  Anyway, there are many more potential headaches one can work with in the fallout of general Aberrant exile from Earth beside enviromental issues, that might or not still be around, depending on how things ran out in the near-century of gap between the two settings.

                  Originally posted by Net Matters
                  - How far did the Op-Net/Internet/Web/Whatever evolve in this time? How much of it broke down during the Aberrant War?

                  - Are there any AIs around? How many are of Aberrant creation in contrast to mundane collective making? Is it even possible to make such separation in any case, considering how many groups were exchanging information all across the world? Could some of these AIs exist with no clearly traceable mainframe in cloud data form? What sides, if any did, these AIs take in the War and why?

                  - Could there be backdoors of Aberrant leaking movements from a variety of Earth organizations through secret transmission to their makers in space? How could Aeon or other organizations detect such infiltration?
                  A little extra to my commentary on the possibility of rogue technologies still around by 2120 that came to my mind. But there's more.

                  Originally posted by Mental Issues
                  - Were there any Aberrants, or people with Aberrant-inspired tech, experimenting with mental reprogramming of people? How far and how extensive could it go?

                  - What psychological, social and ethical issues could such resource or its abuse bring? What unintended deleterious effects might it have?

                  - Could a person so programmed serve as a sleeper agent, or even worse, an access node for whoever has such resources, to strike at the minds of third parties without even doing it in person?
                  Not to mention other possibilities:

                  Originally posted by Random problems
                  - Some band of mad geniuses brought a bunch of previously extinct species, inclunding some taken from thawed megafauna. Should these animals & plants be sent for lab study, put in some sort of special zoo, brought to ambiental reserves of the appropriate type and left to regrow into their old niches or eliminated on the whole as a potential ecological threats in a enviroment grown beyond them and secret Aberrant tools?

                  - A popular movement has been making the rounds online for the purging of any works of art made by Aberrants, due to growing concerns about "memetic timebombs", "mnemonic viruses" and other supposed mind-bending tools that might be hidden in a number of them. How much of it is valid concern, how much paranoia and how much of a effect in the cultural production of the first half of the 21th century would it have? And how viable would such a purge be wth all the data and sources lost during the Aberrant War, not to mention the possible existence of shapechanging celebrities and artistic geniuses that kept themselves to the background of better known performers?

                  - Rumors have been running around of a medical cabal that has infiltrated large scale genetic profiling in a number of organizations across the world, with the intent of tracing family lines with fragment of M-R markers. Depending on whoever tells the tale, the objective is either to collect those people for controlled study of the separate characteristics that may lead to the birth of an Aberrant... or the genetic clean-up of the population of any Aberrant-related traces.
                  Human experimentation or stealth genocide/genetic reprogramming in the name of security, which is the worse option?
                  Just some examples of other stuff one might cook up that go beyond the enviromental issue that seems to have taken over the topic. Brew on...
                  Last edited by Baaldam; 10-16-2015, 12:43 PM.

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                  • #24
                    According to Shattered Europe the space station has devastated France, parts of Spain, as well as Germany and Switzerland. An impact that large will create environmental repercussions.

                    Beyond Environmental issues there is the fact that fascism and government control are major issues in all 3 established timelines. Adventure is set during the rise of Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini. The Aberrant era pre 9/11 shows the Aeon Society is not immune to the tendency of being a bad influence. Aeon has more fascist or fascist like regimes than you can shake a stick at. Prejudice is again a very common theme in all 3 games no Nova short of a God like being able to influence an entire planet and reprogram the entire planet at once can solve the issue.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lncbill View Post
                      According to Shattered Europe the space station has devastated France, parts of Spain, as well as Germany and Switzerland. An impact that large will create environmental repercussions.
                      Trnity book, no? Something makes me think someone had too much Red Mars or Gundam and too little sense of scale in mind...

                      Originally posted by lncbill View Post
                      Beyond Environmental issues there is the fact that fascism and government control are major issues in all 3 established timelines. Adventure is set during the rise of Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini. The Aberrant era pre 9/11 shows the Aeon Society is not immune to the tendency of being a bad influence. Aeon has more fascist or fascist like regimes than you can shake a stick at. Prejudice is again a very common theme in all 3 games no Nova short of a God like being able to influence an entire planet and reprogram the entire planet at once can solve the issue.
                      Yes, dealing with all the political issues of a rising number of expansionist, totalitarist states slowly gaining momentum across many parts of the world could all too readily render any Aberrant-related issues moot. Specially when they start throwing claims of "national security", "vital space", "covert interference", "terrorism financing" and such at each other...

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