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  • Question for Ian Watson

    Ian: I read the chapter you wrote on Aberrants for the Trinity Storytellers Handbook. In that chapter, you stated that Daredevils do not wield energy the way Aberrants or psions do, and are in fact nothing more than extremely skilled and/or luckyhumans. However, the preview text I've read clearly implies that Talents are a third type of Inspired and, therefore, more than human. It doesn't matter for purposes of my game--I've already decided that in my campaign Talents are wielders of probability energy--but I am curious to learn the canon answer. Thanks.


    My name is Colleen. My favorite song is "Wildwood Flower." My ambition is to write the complete history of the White Wolf/Onyx Path universe.

  • #2
    If anyone other than Ian has any information or opinions, please feel free to chime in.


    My name is Colleen. My favorite song is "Wildwood Flower." My ambition is to write the complete history of the White Wolf/Onyx Path universe.

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    • #3
      I didn't write the Aberrant material in the TSH: That was Stew Wilson.

      I'm not sure where your confusion lies. There is no disagreement between the statements "Daredevils do not wield a third type of energy the way Aberrants and psions do" and "Daredevils are a kind of Inspired."


      Ian A. A. Watson
      Onyx Path Community Manager

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      • #4
        The confusion is this: are Talents merely extremely skilled and/or lucky humans, or are they more than human? I thought all Inspired by their very nature were more than human.


        My name is Colleen. My favorite song is "Wildwood Flower." My ambition is to write the complete history of the White Wolf/Onyx Path universe.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JulianMoon View Post
          The confusion is this: are Talents merely extremely skilled and/or lucky humans, or are they more than human? I thought all Inspired by their very nature were more than human.
          Let me ask you a question: what is luck?

          Many people have written that luck is the unconscious application of extreme or unknown skill. Max Gunthor says "events that influence one's life and are seemingly beyond one's control", his emphasis not mine. Jung describes synchronicity as events being related without causal relationship.

          So, by extension: why do you assume that luck itself is not a force within the universe? If you can't control your skill, can it be said that it's not possible for someone else to master it? If someone can be verified to have extreme luck, are they more than human? If, as Gunthor notes, this preternatural luck is beyond their control, does it cease to be luck? If, as Jung says, there is a meaningful relationship to be inferred without a causal one, does that make the Inspired somehow superhuman?


          Neall Raemonn Price
          Beleaguered Scion Developer

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          • #6
            I think what Neall is trying to say is that Talents unconsciously manipulate luck. That is exactly what they do in my game. Thank you.


            My name is Colleen. My favorite song is "Wildwood Flower." My ambition is to write the complete history of the White Wolf/Onyx Path universe.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JulianMoon View Post
              I think what Neall is trying to say is that Talents unconsciously manipulate luck. That is exactly what they do in my game. Thank you.
              Maybe, but I'm also saying it doesn't make them superhuman, or even more than human.


              Neall Raemonn Price
              Beleaguered Scion Developer

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Neall View Post

                Maybe, but I'm also saying it doesn't make them superhuman, or even more than human.

                How does the manipulation of subatomic or atomic particles to influence the events of a given circumstance to benefit you in a certain way make them human?
                Being able to dodge faster...being able to shift a wound so that it is not as critical as it could be...how are these human things?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by thedonnie View Post
                  How does the manipulation of subatomic or atomic particles to influence the events of a given circumstance to benefit you in a certain way make them human?
                  Being able to dodge faster...being able to shift a wound so that it is not as critical as it could be...how are these human things?
                  Collapsing a waveform is an ability of consciousness, not superhuman ability. Humans already do this all the time.


                  Neall Raemonn Price
                  Beleaguered Scion Developer

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                  • #10
                    I agree with thedonnie. If you can manipulate luck, that's a superpower. It's kind of like coincidental magick in Mage: the Ascension.


                    My name is Colleen. My favorite song is "Wildwood Flower." My ambition is to write the complete history of the White Wolf/Onyx Path universe.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree with Neall, people do this in real life, some more than others. It's a talent or lucky gift, not a superhuman power. In fact, I read an article about people who does this a couple of months ago.

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                      • #12
                        I can play Chopsticks on the piano. Some people can compose symphonies. Are they superhuman? Or do they just possess more skill than I do?

                        I'm pretty good at math, but some people can figure out incredibly complex equations in their head. Are they superhuman? Or do they just possess more talent than I do?

                        Some people are lucky. Some people are luckier than others. Are they superhuman?

                        There's a reason we call them "Talents."


                        Ian A. A. Watson
                        Onyx Path Community Manager

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                        • #13
                          I think this is basically a semantic discussion. As long as Talents get to roll some dice to simulate their ability (conscious or otherwise) to manipulate luck, I'll be happy.


                          My name is Colleen. My favorite song is "Wildwood Flower." My ambition is to write the complete history of the White Wolf/Onyx Path universe.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think part of what Neall and Ian are saying is that Talents are "normal" humans who can stand on a relatively equal footing with novas and psiads. I have no problem with this. In fact, in my crossover campaign, I made the archaeologist Jordan Kettridge (from the Vampire Clan Novels) a Talent (technically, I used the Daredevil rules from Adventure! to create him, but I prefer the term Talent). I have no problem with Talents being normal humans who happen to be especially skilled and/or lucky.


                            My name is Colleen. My favorite song is "Wildwood Flower." My ambition is to write the complete history of the White Wolf/Onyx Path universe.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Unless it is specifically written down that they are only highly skilled humans, then I will cleave to my own idea that they are people who manipulate things on a subatomic level to influence how some things play out. That may even be a houserule.
                              With that being said, I can accept that Talents can be just incredibly and highly skilled humans. After all, there are numerous examples of things like that. Such as every action movie ever made. Not to mention the killer in any non-supernatural horror movie. Or even the cunning mastermind who plots things out well beforehand such as Batman. I am just saying that I would like to have mine manipulate particles to stick with the way the other two flavors do it.

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