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  • Human races

    On sale today, bought it today, still in the process of reading it. ^^

    Nonetheless don't you think the human races are a bit underpower ? I understand that Scarn is a tough land and therefore most races are a bit stronger than what they are in D&D Player's manual, one big exception though: humans. They are the same than in the core book but lose the ability to use the option to increase only two abilities and get a free feat. To keep them on par with the other races, I'm considering giving them both a +1 to all abilities and a free feat.

    Other thoughts ? Agreeing ? Disagreeing ?

  • #2
    The variant human not being in the SRD likely has something to do with the Scarred Lands book not presenting that option. I also think it is a smart choice to not have made the default assumption of the Scarred Lands book to be that you will be using particular optional rules like feats, because while they are certainly popular and commonly used, that doesn't actually make them a core part of the 5th edition D&D game.

    As for the potency of humans, I think people unfairly judge the effect of +1 to all ability scores. It is fairly powerful, and unlike most other racial traits it isn't particularly situational. But then, that really depends on overall approach to the game - the 5th edition game is built so that lower scores are needed than most prior editions, but a lot of people are approaching the game from a point of view developed by playing some other edition and it results in skewed perception.


    Not so noble anymore.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JPS View Post
      On sale today, bought it today, still in the process of reading it. ^^
      Same, I'm enjoying it a lot so far.

      Originally posted by JPS View Post
      Nonetheless don't you think the human races are a bit underpower ? I understand that Scarn is a tough land and therefore most races are a bit stronger than what they are in D&D Player's manual, one big exception though: humans. They are the same than in the core book but lose the ability to use the option to increase only two abilities and get a free feat.
      I mean, there's nothing stopping you from using variant humans. I think Drake is right on the money that the variant humans not being presented as an option probably has a lot to do with variant humans not being in the SRD.

      Sidenote: despite the comment about Scarn races being stronger, I don't know if they're really that much stronger. The Dwarf base race is unchanged. Charundi Dwarves are just Hill Dwarves with +1 Str instead of +1 Wis. Kelder Dwarves actually seem weaker than Mountain or Hill Dwarves to me. Elves take a slight nerf to Trance in exchange for an expanded list of Skill Proficiency options and some buffs to tattoo magic in the base race (hard for me to assess as I haven't read tattoo magic yet). Ganjus elves are a straight nerf compared to Wood Elves, with half the Darkvision range and less useful weapon Proficiencies (they trade two Martial Proficiencies for two Simple Proficiencies), andvthe Drendali are an interesting sort of High-Elf/Drow hybrid that seems pretty balanced next to the PHB subraces. Halflings are just all Lightfoots with +1 Con instead of +1 Cha, some Simple weapon proficiencies (which are practically useless), and an expanded list for Skill Proficiencies. All of the new races look perfectly fair to me except Orcs with their +3 Str and bonus action movement, which combine to make objectively the best race for Fighters. I'll probably ban them even in SL-only games.

      Originally posted by JPS View Post
      To keep them on par with the other races, I'm considering giving them both a +1 to all abilities and a free feat.
      noooooooooooooooo. A Feat is roughly worth an ability score increase. Giving humans +1 to all ability scores and a Feat would be like a total of +8, where most Races (even the Scarred Lands versions) have +3 and about one and a half Feats. If you really want to make humams more powerful, give them two ability score increases (which can be traded in for Feats). Then they're actually a little behind numbers wise, but more than make up for it in sheer versatility.


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      • #4
        I posted in the wrong thread oops.
        Last edited by Omegaphallic; 12-05-2016, 08:00 PM.

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        • #5
          Yes, I confess I'm one of those people who consider that +2/+1 is much stronger than eight time +1. Elves have tatoo magic (I haven't tested it yet so I'm unsure how big a boost it is to them), on Dwarves I pretty much agree on what you say (but note they are proficient in medium armor so their most efficient class might have changed) but, mostly I was thinking about Orcs and Asaathi

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          • #6
            How would you guys feel about giving humans the +1 across the board and a bonus Skill proficiency of their choice? Like how humans got the bonus skill points in 3.5?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CrackedMan View Post
              How would you guys feel about giving humans the +1 across the board and a bonus Skill proficiency of their choice? Like how humans got the bonus skill points in 3.5?
              That's probably a pretty reasonable adjustment for the power level of SL races.


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              • #8
                Given that scarred lands humans get a bonus to all saves and weapon proficiencies on top of the standare pathfinder human package i'm not seeing the "too weak" argument (unless this is a 5th edition mechanics statement).
                Last edited by rat_bastard; 01-03-2017, 08:30 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rat_bastard View Post
                  Given that scarred lands humans get a bonus to all saves and weapon proficiencies on top of the standare pathfinder human package i'm not seeing the "too weak" argument (unless this is a 5th edition mechanics statement).
                  Yeah, we've been discussing the 5th edition version, which gives humans the same stats as 5e player's handbook version, and doesn't even present the optional alternate stats for humans that are in the 5e PHB (presumably because the alternate human stats aren't in the OGL).


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                  • #10
                    Ok, it helps when OP clarifies which rules etc they are talking about. Also pathfinder Orcs and Asaathi are pretty powerful.

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                    • #11
                      The 5e Asaatthi seem pretty fair to me. +2 to Int or Dex and +1 to the other makes them pretty versatile, but they don't outshine high elves as rogues or gnomes as wizards. Movement not being reduced by swimming is situational; great in a campaign where you expect to have to swim a lot, but not very useful otherwise, and it's pretty easy to get a swim speed using magic anyway. Advantage on saves against poison and resistance to poison damage is nice, but nothing to write home about, comes standard on dwarves and stout halflings too. Three martial weapon proficiencies sounds appealing until you remember that any class that cares about weapon proficiencies gets everything they need standard. War Fan as a Monk weapon is flavorful but doesn't have much mechanical impact since all Monk weapons are created equal in the hands of a Monk. Ultimately it amounts to +1 AC if you sacrifice your off-hand attack, which isn't worth it for a Monk most of the time. The bite attack is another flavorful but not particularly useful benefit. It gets better if you take the Bite Fighter feat, but there are much better things to be spending your Feats on. 30 foot Darkvision is nice to have. Perception training is solid. Advantage on saving throws against being Charmed is nice. Overall I think they're a really well-designed Race. Lots of cool and flavorful features that make you feel awesome but won't have an overwhelming impact and just the right amount of really solid abilities to make them a strong racial choice without outshining characters of the same Class with a different Race.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rat_bastard View Post
                        Ok, it helps when OP clarifies which rules etc they are talking about.
                        Actually he does. He talks about D&D in the first post, as opposed to Pathfinder.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CrackedMan View Post
                          Actually he does. He talks about D&D in the first post, as opposed to Pathfinder.
                          To be fair, a lot of folks treat Pathfinder as an Honorary D&D 3.75e


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