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  • #31
    We are definitely going to start with Pathfinder, hence the Gauntlet adventure being for PF, but are still looking at porting to other systems. Thanks!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by RichT View Post
      We are definitely going to start with Pathfinder, hence the Gauntlet adventure being for PF, but are still looking at porting to other systems. Thanks!
      Music to my ears. Hopefully dreamscarred psionics too.

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      • #33
        We are definitely going to start with Pathfinder, hence the Gauntlet adventure being for PF, but are still looking at porting to other systems. Thanks!
        It may be a stupid question, but do you plan on publishing system-free sourcebooks at some point or another? I'm just asking because... well... I don't enjoy the d20 anymore (and all its variations, PF included), but I still totally love the setting :P


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        • #34
          The problem with system-free material is exactly that; it lacks a system.You create a whole lot of work for anyone that would like to use the setting.The original Scarred Lands material was created using D&D 3.x, so it makes sense to update it all to Pathfinder. Any kickstarter for this material could definitely include other systems as a stretch goal though, assuming that kickstarter will be the platform used to fund a deluxe edition of course I'll be happy to be exploring Scarn again soon regardless!


          On the path to never 'working' a day in my life

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          • #35
            Originally posted by KPLangers View Post
            The problem with system-free material is exactly that; it lacks a system.You create a whole lot of work for anyone that would like to use the setting.The original Scarred Lands material was created using D&D 3.x, so it makes sense to update it all to Pathfinder. Any kickstarter for this material could definitely include other systems as a stretch goal though, assuming that kickstarter will be the platform used to fund a deluxe edition of course I'll be happy to be exploring Scarn again soon regardless!
            Pathfinder RPG sounds fairly logical to me...at least from the point of view of a Scarred Lands Kickstarter.

            But, with Scarred Lands being one of the first (if not the actual first) 3rd Party Publisher campaign setting to be compatible with D&D, during the 3rd Edition Era, I think that there may be some D&D fans who have migrated to 4e and 5e (rather than Pathfinder) who might be interested in a new 5e Scarred Lands Campaign Setting product line. I don't know what WotC are planning to do to replace the d20 System Trademark Licence (d20STL) and it may be that WotC take too long and Onyx Path have to go with Pathfinder RPG, because that is the only logical option that is open at the time they need to start publishing. I'm not going to buy the 5e books, but it would be crazy for them not to give that option a lot of consideration...and maybe actually choose 5e D&D over Pathfinder RPG if they get a better deal.

            One way to do system neutral products would be to have a series of Web Enhancements that provide rules for Pathfinder RPG, D&D 5th Edition, etc.

            There must be some things that would have a high percentage of non-crunchy content anyway. They would be the easiest things to make system neutral. If there was a Scarred Lands Atlas added to a potential Kickstarter (and I'd love to see Anna Meyer hired to do this, as she makes awesome maps using 3D models) I doubt that it would need to have any game stats.

            There is also the duel-stats option. The 3e Oriental Adventures products also had Lot5R stats, but I'm not sure that the OGL allows that (it blocks publishing under another licence) so unless WotC released a new OGL that allowed 5e compatible products to be published with other Open Game Content, that could be problematic. (However, duel-stat books for two different OGL rules systems would probably be OK.)

            I think it could actually be nice if 3.5 D&D versions were considered too. I am still using 3.5, and if a new set of Scarred Lands books comes out, I'll be wanting to retro convert things back to 3e rules. Web Enhancements that retro-convert new products would be very useful for anyone else using the existing Scarred Lands products with the original rules.

            The SRD is available under the Open Game Licence and it would be technically possible for Onxy Path to publish a Scarred Lands Players Handbook (to replace WotC's ) and a Scarred Lands Gamemaster's Book that dovetailed with the original Creature Collection books to create a complete 3.5 system.

            Sword & Sorcery Studios did do a bespoke d20 System ruleset for World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game but I think that sort of thing reduces the playerbase somewhat (especially as they didn't publish an online SRD for that game, like Paizo did with Pathfinder RPG). So I would rather see Scarred Lands stick with 3.5 or change to Pathfinder RPG than move to a bespoke OGL ruleset based on the SRD.

            One thing that we fans need to bear in mind is that, every option that we fans might be interested in has costs associated with it, as well as income. Supporting two rulesets might bring in more cash, but it might also eat up more money in R&D. They need to make enough money to keep the product line going. I would prefer to not see Scarred Lands go back out of print again, if it is possible for them to make it last indefinitely. More Scarred Lands products in one ruleset is preferable to me than a few products in multiple rulesets. I want to see more of Scarn, not lots of rules.


            David "Big Mac" Shepheard
            Scarnspace is no longer the crystal sphere it once was. The celestial bodies bear horrible scars where gods felled titans. Many of the monstrous races that were created by the titans and gods during the war still survive in the gouged reaches of wildspace.
            You can see more of me at the Scarred Lands forum at The Piazza.

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            • #36
              I think you've covered the pertinent points nicely there David, and I think WotC's hesitancy over any kind of OGL for 5e will play a large part in any decision.

              The OGL for 3.x allowed for a lot of creativity amongst 3rd party publishers, though granted not all of it good. The 4e GSL was excellent at stifling any attempt to publish anything related to the system. I'll certainly be interested to see what, if anything, WotC offer for 5e licensing.

              You're right, of course, in that the important undertaking here is to nurture Scarred Lands, and to bring it back to the forefront of campaign worlds. I'm proud to say that I still own a print copy of everything ever produced for the setting, and that I still regularly run campaigns there; so I'm keen to see some updated material and new fiction regardless.

              A Scarred Lands PH & DMG would certainly present interesting opportunities. There is also the opportunity to present alternate system specific rules and creations at the Piazza of course


              On the path to never 'working' a day in my life

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              • #37
                Well, I still believe there are a few things that can be system-free. The two Gazeeters are (except for the descriptions of the races for Termana), the Campaign Settings almost are (except for few feats/prestige classes at the end), and there is the precedent of the Grand History of the Realm, published by WotC between D&D3.X and D&D 4. My question was "are we going to see books like that" and not "can you remove all system parts in all books you are going to publish" ^^' Of course I agree there is a need for a system, and PathFinder is the most reasonable choice, there is no use arguing over that (even though I like your thoughts Big Mac over the different licenses that exist. Web Enhancements are a nice idea, actually). And my dislike for d20-based system does not surpass my love for the setting, and I am probably going to buy every book there is on the Scarred Lands anyway (heck, I even have that D&D 4 Creature Collection)

                To conclude

                There is also the opportunity to present alternate system specific rules and creations at the Piazza of course
                That is what I did indeed


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                • #38
                  Originally posted by KPLangers View Post
                  I think you've covered the pertinent points nicely there David, and I think WotC's hesitancy over any kind of OGL for 5e will play a large part in any decision.

                  The OGL for 3.x allowed for a lot of creativity amongst 3rd party publishers, though granted not all of it good. The 4e GSL was excellent at stifling any attempt to publish anything related to the system. I'll certainly be interested to see what, if anything, WotC offer for 5e licensing.
                  If you look at Paizo (and I think everyone agrees that they are the most successful of the 3rd Party Publisher companies publishing OGL material for 3rd Edition D&D) they carried on, when others gave up on 3rd Edition.

                  Originally posted by KPLangers View Post
                  You're right, of course, in that the important undertaking here is to nurture Scarred Lands, and to bring it back to the forefront of campaign worlds. I'm proud to say that I still own a print copy of everything ever produced for the setting, and that I still regularly run campaigns there; so I'm keen to see some updated material and new fiction regardless.

                  A Scarred Lands PH & DMG would certainly present interesting opportunities. There is also the opportunity to present alternate system specific rules and creations at the Piazza of course
                  I've not got all of the books, so I'm still working out what books are the most important ones for me to buy. I'm not sure I'll bother with the 4e book, as I think it is just a duplication of 3e monsters.

                  Originally posted by haaz View Post
                  Well, I still believe there are a few things that can be system-free. The two Gazeeters are (except for the descriptions of the races for Termana), the Campaign Settings almost are (except for few feats/prestige classes at the end), and there is the precedent of the Grand History of the Realm, published by WotC between D&D3.X and D&D 4. My question was "are we going to see books like that" and not "can you remove all system parts in all books you are going to publish" ^^'
                  Great point.

                  Strange Lands: Lost Tribes of the Scarred Lands was a bit like three books for Asherak, Fenrilik and the Dragon Lands that were bundled together, to get them published before the product line ended. So I'm sure that more could be done with those three continents (even if it was not systemless books).

                  And I would love to see a Grand History of Scarn get published. That's a brilliant idea. They should totally do that.

                  Originally posted by haaz View Post
                  Of course I agree there is a need for a system, and PathFinder is the most reasonable choice, there is no use arguing over that (even though I like your thoughts Big Mac over the different licenses that exist. Web Enhancements are a nice idea, actually). And my dislike for d20-based system does not surpass my love for the setting, and I am probably going to buy every book there is on the Scarred Lands anyway (heck, I even have that D&D 4 Creature Collection) :
                  One reason why I prefer to stick with a system that is as close to 3rd Edition as possible (and Pathfinder RPG is closest) is that a lot of the more crunchy products (including some that launched the Scarred Lands product line) were based specifically on building 3e compatible content. So things like Feats and Prestige Classes were hard-coded into Scarred Lands from the start.

                  I do strongly believe that any campaign setting can be run under any ruleset, so I believe that Savage Worlds support (or support for anything else) is possible. (They could move to 100 percent Savage Worlds and do a good job.) But looking at what happened when Sword & Sorcery Studio moved from Warcraft: The RPG to World of Warcraft: The RPG, there was several books that duplicated earlier books.

                  Maybe I'm selfish, but I would like to see new Scarred Lands products as soon as possible, rather than wait for 2 or 3 Savage Worlds or 5e D&D books to rebuild the core of Scarred Lands.

                  This goes both ways too. Although I didn't play 4e, I think it is a shame that 4e Scarred Lands consisted of just one monster book and pretty much no setting support. If they are going to do Savage Worlds or 5e, I think the fans would hope that Onyx Path had the time to focus on it enough to do the job properly.


                  David "Big Mac" Shepheard
                  Scarnspace is no longer the crystal sphere it once was. The celestial bodies bear horrible scars where gods felled titans. Many of the monstrous races that were created by the titans and gods during the war still survive in the gouged reaches of wildspace.
                  You can see more of me at the Scarred Lands forum at The Piazza.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I've not got all of the books, so I'm still working out what books are the most important ones for me to buy. I'm not sure I'll bother with the 4e book, as I think it is just a duplication of 3e monsters.
                    It is. The only real new thing in there is new illustrations, and they are not that great...

                    Although I didn't play 4e, I think it is a shame that 4e Scarred Lands consisted of just one monster book and pretty much no setting support.
                    I think there was a Relics & Rituals programmed, but they cancelled it for lack of budget...

                    One reason why I prefer to stick with a system that is as close to 3rd Edition as possible (and Pathfinder RPG is closest) is that a lot of the more crunchy products (including some that launched the Scarred Lands product line) were based specifically on building 3e compatible content. So things like Feats and Prestige Classes were hard-coded into Scarred Lands from the start.
                    Yes they are hard-coded, and looking back, it is actually what one of the reasons that makes the charm of the Scarred Lands, providing a setting-based explanation on why divine and primal magic are different ^^ I the home-made ruleset I am using, I had to keep the classes/prestige classes structure to provide the feeling of the setting (even if at some point I hesitated to throw that away).

                    But looking at what happened when Sword & Sorcery Studio moved from Warcraft: The RPG to World of Warcraft: The RPG, there was several books that duplicated earlier books.
                    I agree, I don't want to see that either, and I think that would divide the audience. If systems are close enough (like different versions of the d20 system, and I believe D&D 5 is a close-enough version of the d20 system, from what I have seen of it [I may be wrong]), conversions can be made as an appendix as what Monte Cook did for his Book of Eldricht Might series (written for standard d20 but the appendix provided conversion for his own Unearthed Arcana d20 variant), or as you suggested, a web enhancement ^^


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                    • #40
                      I'd prefer Pathfinder, simply for the backwards compatibility with the preexisting 3.5 SL material, the large PF fan base, and the excellent Pathfinder support. Sure, we'd all love for their to be a Scarred Lands port to our own favorite system, but Pathfinder at this time makes the most sense, since Scarred Lands was White Wolf''s 3.5 setting, and Pathfinder is the inheritor of the 3.5 legacy, For better or for worse, Scarn is a Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 world. Also, Pathfinder represents the best compromise - the preexising Scarred Lands fan base can move into Pathfinder with no trouble, and new SL players can move from the large Pathfinder community into Scarred Lands with absolutely no trouble at all. Further, all the prior development work that went into Scarred Lands won't be wasted - the spells, items, feats and prestige classes from Scarred Lands will relatively easy to balance pass and convert into PF, much easier to convert than to do so, say, for D&D 5E.

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                      • #41
                        I think it would be superb to see a Storytelling version. I would likely take any published material and convert to something anyways, so as long as all the stuff is in there, I'll happily pick it up just for the amazing setting.

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                        • #42
                          Not quite related, but of late i've been mighty tempted to just go back to Mirrors and some other nWoD stuff as the basis for the next time i ST a Scarred Lands game...

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                          • #43
                            I don't really have a dog in this fight as I'm not much of a d20 fan — the only d20 game I have enjoyed was Mutants and Masterminds, which was only nominally d20 to begin with and has subsequently moved away from even that much of a connection — but here are my thoughts anyway:

                            I think OPP should focus exclusively on Pathfinder. Others have pointed out the reasons why OPP should start there; let me submit that they shouldn't go any further because the company isn't known for its system work so much as it's known for its setting work: when they have done successful system design, it has always been with a system that's tailor-made to a particular setting.

                            As well, the ports that most people have been requesting have been other versions of d20; if the d20 community is as vibrant as I think it is, I'm betting that guidelines for “how to port from Pathfinder to X” have already been written and distributed. Unless they decide to devise a custom version of d20 that's tailored specifically to the Scarred Lands, they should stick to what they're really good at: developing compelling settings.


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                            • #44
                              If it was up to me I would go with 5e. Don't get me wrong we played and loved pathfinder for years, dnd 4e just never did it for us. The new 5e plays perfect for our style of play.

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                              • #45
                                I don't suppose we could get some rules for using SL with Onyx Path's other games, sort of like the books of mirrors (IIRC)? I would love an alternate setting to drop Changeling, Beast,(any cWoD or nWod game, really) Scion, Exalted, or Trinity Continuum game in. Even if they were just aids for some handwavium would be nice.

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