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  • Omegaphallic
    started a topic Scarn Tieflings, Aasimar, Dragonborn

    Scarn Tieflings, Aasimar, Dragonborn

    Given that Tieflings and Dragonborn are in the 5e Player's Handbook, I'm wondering if they'll be in Scarred Lands?

    I toss tossed the Aasimar in the title for what the hell reasons.

    I'm not familiar with Scarred Lands so maybe they're already in it.

    And what about stranger stuff like Warlocks (Fey, Fey, Lovecraftian pacts), and so on?

  • Big Mac
    replied
    Originally posted by HaplessWithDice View Post
    Doesn't though answer the question.
    No. It doesn't answer your question at all.

    I'll answer your question, but you probably won't think I'm answering your question.

    You asked about the 5th Edition Player's Handbook.

    The 5th Edition PHB is not Open Game Content. That means it is illegal (copyright infringement) for Onyx Path to take content from the 5e PHB and use it in the Scarred Lands campaign setting. The exact same thing applied to the 3.0 PHB and the 3.5 PHB.

    Wizards of the Coast has created a number of documents called "System Reference Document" and has released those under the Open Game Licence. Legally, 3rd Party Publishers, like Sword & Sorcery Studios or Onyx Path are only allowed to use content released under the OGL and defined as "Open Game Content".

    So this means that your question turns into the PHB is off limits, but have "Tieflings and Dragonborn ever been released as Open Game Content?

    If you check the Hypertext d20 SRD, you can see that Tieflings were released as an OGC race for 3.5. That means that the original Scarred Lands designers had them available as an option. And it means that even if Paizo didn't convert Tieflings to Pathfinder and even if WotC didn't rerelease Tieflings in their 5e SRD, it would still be totally legal for another company to convert Tieflings to those rules. (In fact, if you check the 5e SRD page for Monsters, you can see that WotC actually didn't rerelease the Tiefling. But as I said, someone else can convert the 3.5 version, as it is already available as OGC.)

    Also, looking at the 5e SRD page for Monsters, you will see that WotC have not released the Dragonborn. (I've not checked the 4e SRD, but the 4e SRD was released under a different licence - called the GSL - or Game System Licence - and it is not legally possible to take content licensed under the GSL and republish it under the OGL, so what the 4e SRD did is not relevant to what Onyx Path are allowed to do now.)

    So the boring legal answer to your question is: Tieflings could legally be added to Scarred Lands, but Dragonborn could not.

    Does anyone know if any of the original Scarred Lands products include Tieflings? Edge of Infinity: The Scarred Planes seems to be Scarred Lands's answer to D&D's Planescape, so I'd look in there, if you own it. Did the Kickstarter raise enough money to get Edge of Infinity: The Scarred Planes onto the Pathfinder/5e conversion schedule?

    However, there is nothing stopping you - as a fan - from adding Tieflings or Dragonborn or anything else to your home game.

    Originally posted by HaplessWithDice View Post
    What about them? My own thoughts are that they could work. Tieflings could be a new race created by Mesos warping humans and tempting them with greater magical power. There appear to be demons in Scarn's cosmology so humans laying with demons for pleasure or one of many other reasons could happen. They might not be common.
    Like I said above, I think you should check Edge of Infinity. But aside from that, I think that sounds like a couple of logical enough ways to incorporate planetouched characters.

    Originally posted by HaplessWithDice View Post
    The dragon born could have been created by the Mother of Serpents but they can easily fit in the setting. Or maybe created by the gods Corean and Vangal to bolster the ranks, since Dragonborn mature quickly according to the core handbook. Though I must admit I am a bit curious as to the role of dragons in the world of Scarn, and how they fit into things. For example were dragons allies of the gods and titians? Did they stay out of the war? Were they the weapon that tipped things in one sides favor? I think that will go a long way to answer what role dragon born play in the setting.
    I don't really know much about Dragonborn. I did play a Dragonborn in the Faceborg game Heroes of Neverwinter, but I've never read the 4e or 5e rules.

    I think you raise a logical question with the role of dragons in Scarred Lands. I don't remember any big specific mentions of dragons in the books that I've read so far. But I am still learning about Scarred Lands, so there might be something I've missed. (I want to pick up the Scarred Lands novels at some point, as novels often give you background information that is sometimes deemed to be too trivial for RPG products.)

    From what I hear from a 4e friend I talk to over at The Piazza, WotC created Dark Sun Dragonborn and Nentir Vale Dragonborn that had radically different backgrounds. So I think you could take the Dragonborn from your 5e PHB, throw out the background description, and add in a new ecology that you think works well with the sort of Scarred Lands game you want to run.

    And if you feel like sharing your fan conversion online, I'm sure there are other fans who would like to see it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Big Mac
    replied
    Originally posted by Purple Snit View Post
    Now, Onyx Path owns the rights to the Scarred Lands setting, and they will be expanding and updating it using the OGL rules, and also using the D&D 5th Edition rules through a similar license.
    5th Edition isn't realised under a similar licence to the Open Gaming Licence. It is released under the exact same OGL that the 3.0 SRD, 3.5 SRD and Modern SRD were released under.

    This is important (from a boring legal point-of-view) because it means that the Scarred Lands designers are only interacting with the Open Game Content of other companies under a single licence. They are not forced to implement changes to the Scarred Lands campaign setting to fit in with some sort of Pathfinder or 5th Edition D&D design decision.

    The fact that all three rules systems are released under the same OGL, means that the Onyx Path designers could take any Pathfinder RPG OGC that they like and convert it to 5th Edition (or retro-convert it to 3.5 Edition) and they could take any 5th Edition OGC they like and convert it to Pathfinder RPG (or retro-convert it to 3.5 Edition).

    This means that they can get on with the job of designing Scarred Lands and not have to worry about adding in and subtracting races to deal with different rules systems.

    Leave a comment:


  • haaz
    replied
    The hollow knights (or legionnaires, as they seem to be called now) already fill the role of the "warforged" in a way (construct humanoid), so it would seem weird to have a second similar race.

    EDIT : looking again at the preview of the ToC, there are two racial traits that seem destined for Sutak. As creations of Thulkas, I guess it would be appropriate to call them Ironbred

    Leave a comment:


  • nofather
    replied
    Ironborn are from the Book of Iron Might. They're sort of like Warforged from Eberron, it might be something like that. Manticora were feral beast people from one of the Creature Collections.
    Last edited by nofather; 08-24-2016, 08:33 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • haaz
    replied
    I suspect it would be similar in 5E ^^ Any idea on what they mean by ironbred?

    Leave a comment:


  • nofather
    replied
    I can't speak for the fifth edition version but they just posted the Pathfinder table of contents, allowing you to see the races. Asaathi, Dwarves, Elves, Halflings, Hollow Legionnaires, Humans, Ironbred, Manticora, Orcs, and Slitherin.

    Leave a comment:


  • HaplessWithDice
    replied
    Originally posted by haaz View Post
    Hop, before I go a little bit in the details, I want to clarify that what follows is my own understanding of the setting, and I don't believe there is a "right" or "wrong" answer. In particular, if you want to make your personnal changes because it suits you and your game better, well, go for it ^^


    For tiefliengs. As mentioned above, they already exist in the setting, as descendants of unions between fiends and humans. They are pretty rare, except maybe in a few key locations where interactions with demons or devils are more common (examples are Lageni, probably the Obsidian Pyre, Kasiavel in Termana, and of course, Asherak). Remember that generally, outisders (angels, demons, etc) are aligned with the gods, while elementals are aligned with the titans (of course, exceptions exist) and therefore, tiefliengs could be probably considered as a "divine race" (even if, again, that may vary from individual to another and therefore).

    For dragonborns. In the setting, there is a distinction between true dragons and wrack dragons (which are elementals shaped as dragons created as the weapons of the titans you speak of). True dragons are magical entities which are neither divine or titan by nature. As the slaracian, they come from another world. Long time ago (before the war against the slaracians), the true dragons left almost all continents to retreat on their Dragon Isles (a continent south-east of Asherak, where the gods and the titans are mostly unknown) and stayed isolated here. There are is only one true dragon on Ghelspad (and it is a young one trapped in Shelzar's menagerie), and I don't think there are many on Termana (the only that I can think of is the Tar dragon which lives in the Gamulganjus). Which means that anything related to true dragons would probably only happen on the Dragon Isles. Now of course it would be easy to insert Dragonborn in the Dragon Isles and call it a day ^^ For example, they could simply replace the kobolds (which were created by the dragons as their servants and their emissaries with the other humanoid races), or have been created in one of the many wars the dragons fought between themselves

    Again, this is only my interpretation of the books. I might have misread stuff, and it doesn't mean you should refrain from changing or complementing whatever you like if that suits your game better ^^





    I just realized I made that misread myself and that true dragons did not universally side with one side, in my game so far I'm going with the majority did, and leaving the made by the gods warping true Dragon eggs. They have no cities, kingdoms or lands of their own and tend to live among Elves, Dwarves, and humans.

    I also added shifters as a race made to fight Were beasts by Tanil.

    And Goliath as a race made by Denev that worship her.

    Leave a comment:


  • haaz
    replied
    Hop, before I go a little bit in the details, I want to clarify that what follows is my own understanding of the setting, and I don't believe there is a "right" or "wrong" answer. In particular, if you want to make your personnal changes because it suits you and your game better, well, go for it ^^


    For tiefliengs. As mentioned above, they already exist in the setting, as descendants of unions between fiends and humans. They are pretty rare, except maybe in a few key locations where interactions with demons or devils are more common (examples are Lageni, probably the Obsidian Pyre, Kasiavel in Termana, and of course, Asherak). Remember that generally, outisders (angels, demons, etc) are aligned with the gods, while elementals are aligned with the titans (of course, exceptions exist) and therefore, tiefliengs could be probably considered as a "divine race" (even if, again, that may vary from individual to another and therefore).

    For dragonborns. In the setting, there is a distinction between true dragons and wrack dragons (which are elementals shaped as dragons created as the weapons of the titans you speak of). True dragons are magical entities which are neither divine or titan by nature. As the slaracian, they come from another world. Long time ago (before the war against the slaracians), the true dragons left almost all continents to retreat on their Dragon Isles (a continent south-east of Asherak, where the gods and the titans are mostly unknown) and stayed isolated here. There are is only one true dragon on Ghelspad (and it is a young one trapped in Shelzar's menagerie), and I don't think there are many on Termana (the only that I can think of is the Tar dragon which lives in the Gamulganjus). Which means that anything related to true dragons would probably only happen on the Dragon Isles. Now of course it would be easy to insert Dragonborn in the Dragon Isles and call it a day ^^ For example, they could simply replace the kobolds (which were created by the dragons as their servants and their emissaries with the other humanoid races), or have been created in one of the many wars the dragons fought between themselves

    Again, this is only my interpretation of the books. I might have misread stuff, and it doesn't mean you should refrain from changing or complementing whatever you like if that suits your game better ^^






    Leave a comment:


  • HaplessWithDice
    replied
    Okay, so as I continue to look things over, and learn about the setting I developed a short lore for the Dragon born. Since the dragons were the weapons of the titans the gods captured Dragon eggs and Belsamath, and Corean warped the dragon eggs to produce the Dragonborn.

    Leave a comment:


  • HaplessWithDice
    replied
    Doesn't though answer the question.

    What about them? My own thoughts are that they could work. Tieflings could be a new race created by Mesos warping humans and tempting them with greater magical power. There appear to be demons in Scarn's cosmology so humans laying with demons for pleasure or one of many other reasons could happen. They might not be common.

    The dragon born could have been created by the Mother of Serpents but they can easily fit in the setting. Or maybe created by the gods Corean and Vangal to bolster the ranks, since Dragonborn mature quickly according to the core handbook. Though I must admit I am a bit curious as to the role of dragons in the world of Scarn, and how they fit into things. For example were dragons allies of the gods and titians? Did they stay out of the war? Were they the weapon that tipped things in one sides favor? I think that will go a long way to answer what role dragon born play in the setting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Thank you for clearing it up for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morangias
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
    Personally, I get confused about the whole D&D and Pathfinder stuff. I'm still unclear if Forgotten Realms, Pathfinder and all that other stuff is part of the same setting, or different worlds of their own.
    D&D is a system. It has a number of default setting assumptions in its corebooks (for example, a default assumption of the game is that your world will contain elves, dwarves, halflings and orcs), but no default setting in the sense of geography, politics etc.

    Enter campaign settings, which are books describing specific worlds, giving you a more defined framework for making your own adventures, and often adding new options or altering the default assumptions of the game slightly. For example, Dark Sun is a magical post-apocalyptic setting where arcane magic drains vital force from the planet, most of the known world is a desert and water is extremely scarce, so the campaign setting book has modified rules for arcane classes and a set of rules for survival in the desert. Official campaign settings for D&D include Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Eberron, Planescape, Birthright, Dragonlance and other (not all are available for every edition of the game).

    Along with third edition, D&D introduced Open Game License (OGL), a legal way for third-party developers to create their own D&D-compatible material. Many sourcebooks and campaign settings arose from this, along with many completely new games based on the mechanical core of the d20 system. Scarred Lands is such a third-party campaign setting.

    Which leads us to Pathfinder. It started as a third-party campaign setting for D&D 3.5, but when that game got replaced with a controversial fourth edition, the authors of Pathfinder saw the opportunity to take over the disenfranchised 3.5 players by remaking it into a standalone OGL game that closely mirrored 3.5, but attempted to improve upon many aspects of the rules - whether they succeeded or not is a matter of some contention, but the game became quite successful, at some point eclipsing D&D 4e as the most popular roleplaying game. Due to how similar it was to 3.5, it's sometimes jokingly called "D&D 3.75".

    To make things more confusing, Pathfinder also works under OGL, so now in addition to third-party D&D products, you also have third-party Pathfinder products.

    Hope that helps.

    Leave a comment:


  • haaz
    replied
    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
    Given that Tieflings and Dragonborn are in the 5e Player's Handbook, I'm wondering if they'll be in Scarred Lands?

    I toss tossed the Aasimar in the title for what the hell reasons.

    I'm not familiar with Scarred Lands so maybe they're already in it.

    And what about stranger stuff like Warlocks (Fey, Fey, Lovecraftian pacts), and so on?
    Long story short, tieflings and aasimars exist in the Scarred Lands (at least the original version, and probably the new one as well), even though they are really rare. There are a couple of places where they are slightly more frequent (notably, for example, Lageni, as dear Arch-Duke Traviak tried to breed them for his armies), but still remain unusual.

    I suspect that dragonborns will be exclusively for the Dragon Lands (and to be honest, I don't think they will cover any Dragon Lands any time soon), so I would say nope, no dragonborns, at least for the time being.

    For warlocks, they are mentions of pact magic thrown here and there, so yes, it definitively exists, even though in 3.X it never used the warlock class or any equivalent.

    Leave a comment:


  • Purple Snit
    replied
    If I've been paying attention, it goes like this: the Pathfinder RPG originated from the Open Gaming License that was first started with D&D 3rd Edition, and continued with the 3.5 rules - Pathfinder is put out by Paizo Publications, who used to publish Dragon and Dungeon magazines. Scarred Lands was an independent setting that was developed using the same OGL 3.5 rules, with its own races, gods, and adventures. Now, Onyx Path owns the rights to the Scarred Lands setting, and they will be expanding and updating it using the OGL rules, and also using the D&D 5th Edition rules through a similar license. It isn't an official D&D game, nor is it Pathfinder, but you can use the setting with either set of rules.

    Leave a comment:

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