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[jamiemalk]

Well, alright, in answering why i totally understand why people want to see V5 flounder, a little vitriol may have come out. I was trying to be as mild as i could though. As i said, morbid curiosity. I stayed on the Ex Libris Nocturnis forum until it closed, joined this one as soon as i found out about it, not planning on leaving.

[jamiemalk]

Oh, i never stopped playing revised, i just utterly ignored Requiem, that'll be what i'm doing with V5. Well, finacialy ignoring, there's still the curiosity.

Why on earth would you use Requiem rules if you hated it?

I've been through this with other games, i'm still using 15+ year old books for the most part. V20 was a ray of sunshine, but the clouds have come back thicker than ever....

[jamiemalk]

Partly due to there still being other chess fans? Also a little morbid curiosity. Best place to hear the news...

[jamiemalk]

Eh, they went from checkers back to chess once already. I can only hope, 'cos there's nothing in the room for me now.

[jamiemalk]

Lets say i'm in the chess club. I go to the room where it's been held for as long as i can remember. There's a new guy running it. I take a seat. He puts down a board in front of me, i'm thinking "Cool, new board" and then he starts setting out checkers.

I didn't come for checkers, so i leave. And unfortunately, as long as checkers is popular, i'm not going to see chess getting any support. So, yeah, i kinda want the checkers club to, well, fail, so maybe chess can be back on the table.

Gentlest way i can put it....

[jamiemalk]

I think the most baffling thing to me about this is why people are killing vampires enough for this to be a problem in the first place. Unless you're using claws or fire or some other means of causing Agg, (Which basically means it'll be murder, sin wise, unless you're frenzying) vampires are really quite hard to kill, almost to go as far as nigh impossible. I think in all the games i've played, i've killed less than 20, and that's including when i was on Paths that allowed or encouraged it...

Torpor, drain, stake, stick the body somewhere out of the way. Unconscious and harmless...

[jamiemalk]

Just in case there's any doubt, all of the instances of self defense not being valid were in front of witnesses, and a couple were on camera too. The guy with the knife was done for Assault witha Deadly Weapon and the guy who got cut was done for Assault. I witnessed a girl jump down a fight of steps on to another girl and beat the tar out of her, they were both charged and fined, equal responsibility.

As i said, the Beast doesn't care about legal defenses, much like most police......

[jamiemalk]

Manslaughter;
the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or in circumstances not amounting to murder.

If someone unintentionally dies as a result of something you did, that's manslaughter. Not sure where the tomato eating strawman is coming from...

As to self defense, it's an excuse, and far from certain to let you get away with any action. I've know several people that have been convicted of assault for defending themselves from an attacker, including one guy who had his face sliced open down to the bone. He punched the guy to try and get him...

[jamiemalk]

Manslaughter just means you did not intend to kill someone. You can use self defense as legal shield at trial, but the Beast doesn't follow the legal system. Commit the crime, face the consequences......

[jamiemalk]

How is the easy mode/superhero with fangs of letting killing be easily justified as not causing humanity loss dramatic or interesting? Seriously, the risk of loosing humanity is meant to be the biggest dilema in the game, killing to save the little girl feels right but is the road to hell. You might want to be the good guy, but the more you do, the more likely you are to spiral down to the Beast.

The Beast is a creature of hunger and violence, you need to avoid those if you want to keep it in check....

[jamiemalk]

This has exactly Zero effect. Killing a saint or a serial killer is the same thing to the Beast. Choosing to kill is always straying closer to the beast. Again, the beast wants you to kill, and if you start agreeing with it, then you're closer to it.



Age has very little to do with it, it's more about the character's out look and how active they are. 5/6 is my average for characters, regardless of age....

[jamiemalk]

The Beast is a rules lawyer. The sins are the laws, if you try to argue that breaking one is fine, the beast agrees with you, and you just got closer to it.

Ask the player who killed the sniper how they felt about having to kill. If they feel they did the right thing, that's humanity loss time. Conflicted, then they can roll. Humanity is all about actions. the guy in front of you is dying? Unless you caused that, you can watch and not have to roll. Step in to break up a fight and kill a guy, that's a roll. Kill a bunch of human trafficers to save a little girl, that's a whole mess...

[jamiemalk]

Humanity is not a measure of how Good a character is, it is a measure of how close to the beast it is. Conscience is how Good/moral a character is.

Killing in self defence is exactly the kind of self justifying excuse that allows the beast to gain leverage over you....