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  • Ajax
    replied to Sandmen motivations?
    Which doesn't really fit. Sandmen and Chanteurs affect both the living and the dead. And the both perform a desirable service. Particularly when one gets away from the Shadowlands and mortals generating Pathos. They're effectively the grocers and chefs of the underworld.

    So, yeah, their Arcanoi CAN be used to do illegal badness, but it's just too useful to not have around because of that potential. It's not like they are doing Outrage or Phantasm or Puppetry or Alchemy (etc.) whose users are walking violations of the Dictuum.

    Meaning, Sandmen and Chanteurs shouldn't...
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  • Ajax
    replied to Sandmen motivations?
    Because they don't mind the idea of spending the rest of eternity as a moaning doorstop?...
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  • Agreed. And I don't think that your definition of evil is definitely on target. IIndifference when you cause harm is, in fact, a hallmark of of certain values of "evil". An example on the mundane and human level:

    A serial killer comes into a family's home and brutally murders all of them.

    A landlord evicts a family during the most brutal part of winter. They have nowhere to go and they all freeze to death....
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  • Ajax
    replied to Awakening, how to describe it.
    Wow! I had a lot of examples queued up to give on both sides.... Great. Run with it!

    My next game, I plan on doing this as well. Setting up an Orphan game with the Awakenings occurring right after the first session (to establish the characters' "normal side" before the magic hits the fan and their lives begin to spiral out of control). Then moving on to having each character explore and create their Focus from the ground up....
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  • Ajax
    replied to Awakening, how to describe it.
    It doesn't. Not really. There are some depictions in relevant fiction of varying value. There is material in other, usually older books. It's not that you can't do it, but you REALLY have to decide how that sort of thing is going to work in your game. (TBH, Chronicles of Darkness Mage the Awakening has much more straightforward advice about it.)

    First question is how present/manifest are Avatars going to be in your game? How does this tie in with the number of dots in the Background?

    If Avatars are as present as Shadows are in Wraith or if that's what a high...
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  • Ajax
    replied to Wr 20 Getting close to release?
    "Curses only have power if you believe in them. And I don't."
    - Detective Gary Hallet

    Too much already. It's more an excuse than an actual thing at this point, inasmuch as it ever was or could even be.

    Get 'er done folks. I put up my money. Time for results. Particularly after the enlightening and salient point provided by Dataweaver.
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  • Wards are awesome. As is a family of ghouls with a fair number of necromancers, some mediums, some who can just perceive ghosts in some way...

    I'm sure that the Giovanni in Venice have defense in depth around their primary centers of power that would give a Deathlord pause. After all, Augustus SO good with necromancy, he impressed a 3rd generation vampire enough to want to embrace him to bring that know-how into the Clan of Death.

    And, as good little children, Giovanni elsewhere will try to set things in as similar a fashion as much as their lesser resources allow....
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  • Alternatively, you could have the artifact be VERY VERY powerful (as in, "up to ST fiat" level abilities), but insure that using it has serious consequences. Better yet, serious PERSONAL consequences for the user.

    Like, I dunno, using the Ark of Covenant and getting your face melted.... Just as an example....
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  • He could use his spooky Level 10 Disciplines on her. If the power level of Augustus Giovanni is "DM fiat" then I think anything below that is going to lose in a head to head battle.

    Baba Yaga shows up in her hut. Casts some spells. Uses some Potence against his "doesn't die if he doesn't want to" 3rd Generation-ness. Summons a lot of animals.

    Augustus Giovanni summons and materializes the ghosts of everyone she ever killed. And everyone who ever mourned everyone she ever killed. And everyone who died as an immediate proximate cause of her actions....
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    Last edited by Ajax; 05-15-2017, 12:02 PM.

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  • Ajax
    replied to M20 Dark Ages?
    Maybe we need an actual sample of actual games. How many games have you run with player characters with Arete 6-10? Broken down with respect each dot, preferably (as in "How many PCs have reached Arete 10? How many 9?.... How many Arete 6?) And, in how many cases were Spheres of 6 (or 6-10 if Masters is in play).

    What about NPCs? Who was the most powerful Master actually in play and what was her Arete? (And Spheres of 6). How frequent are other NPCs of Arete 6-10?

    I may have experienced a non-standard subsection of Mage gaming. I'd have to look through...
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  • Spirit 2 summons the Spirit. Spirit 4 and you can force into a fetish-analgoue, force it possess someone or not possess someone, bind it to location for a haunting thing or any other way you want to make it your bitch. But Spirit 2 should work just fine to summon your standard wraith. Just like the Sepulchre Path at 2. And you can trap it there.

    Bag it and tag it....
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  • Ajax
    replied to M20 Dark Ages?
    I think there's a fundamental flaw in this argument. Mage really falls apart when Arete 6+ comes into play. The power levels are significantly higher than what happens when a vampire diablerizes their way to a low enough generation to get 6 dot Disciplines or a Werewolf gets enough Renown for Rank 6/Level 6 Gifts. Spheres at 6 are earthshaking/ST fiat level stuff. They have more in common with the stuff Incarnae can do and Vampires down in the low low ends of the generation pool. And the Arete system unlocks that incredible power, that, being bound only by ST fiat, is de facto, power that...
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  • It's getting into "this game" vs. "that game", my splat vs. your splat, my dad can beat up your dad territory.

    From Vampire, wraiths are pretty easy to mess with. From Wraith, vampires are pretty much just flammable toys. Wraiths are even less of an issue vs. a Mage with Spirit 2 and a vidare of the Dark Umbra. (I can summon ANY Wraith and there's nothing to say it can't be a wraith that's pretty much anywhere.... so, sucks to be therm if some dude in Chicago calls up a ghost who lives in Necropolis Paris. That's a long slog to get home, unless there's...
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  • Ajax
    replied to M20 Dark Ages?
    I dunno. I think that's precisely what's in play if one is discussing broadening some of the core conceits of Foundation/Pillar magic to Mage as a whole. In fact, if you want to try to apply DA Mage magic outwards in space during the same time period as well (and, even, internal to Europe, to deal with the Traditions masquerading as Fellowships, e.g. Spirit Talkers and the Old Faith).

    If anything, I see a major weakness in NOT building in the Idran focus at least a little more strongly in the Pillar descriptions in the Black Hand book. And, another weakness in making their Pillars...
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  • Ajax
    Ajax posted a Visitor Message for Dataweaver
    I wish I had the pdf of the book. I would find some way to excerpt the relevant portion (not small, but not overly huge) and get it to you. I think it would be very useful to some of the ideas you've floated vis-a-vis some different ways to tackle Mage magic in the past.

    I dunno if you have access to old CtD materials, but another interesting system with some useful parallels is the magic system for the changelings in Land of 8 Million Dreams. It has some very interesting ways to make the stuff that ends up in "Focus" in Mage matter very much in the form of making generating...
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  • Ajax
    replied to M20 Dark Ages?
    To me, it was worth the investment, but YMMV. Based on your love of in depth exploration of the mechanics of Mage magic, it might be very well worth it.

    As a , it is explicitly DA Foundation/Pillar based in the way in which the magic a mage possesses is measured, but the implementation of effects borrows HEAVILY from standard non-DA Mage, though some things (like Paradox) are trimmed back for functionality. (TBH, it would have taken a huge chunk of the entire book to deal with even the basics of Mage Paradox. and it's ostensibly about vampires, though it's got a huge Wraith, significant...
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    Last edited by Ajax; 05-10-2017, 07:07 AM.

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  • Ajax
    replied to M20 Dark Ages?
    Have you seen the not-Foundation/Pillar - not Arete/Sphere hybrid for the not-Chakravanti (but really are) in the Black Hand book?...
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  • Ajax
    replied to Just do it the high-tech way
    Are they? Considering Spheres are identical in Mage-the-game and Mage-the-game-setting, they are, for all intents and purposes, intrinsic to the construction of reality. Maybe they weren't always... (but even then they kinda were) During the Dark Ages the world's magic was a mosaic of similar but not congruent mini-praxes that were a fusion of Focus and Sphere, but, by the time of the creation of the Order of Reason and the Traditions, the Spheres seem to be THE accurate way of describing the way the universe actually works. Witness the fact, that, (with the possible exception of some dudes...
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  • Ajax
    replied to Dark Secret for my Wraith
    Not intentionally.

    As someone who has ST'd Wraith several times and played it couple more, sometimes really great stories don't make as great characters. This is a good story. But he's very very focused and might end up being focused away from what the other characters are doing. It's something you, and your ST, need to take into account.

    But all of that is still off point, right? Have you come up with some ideas for the Dark Secret?...
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  • Ajax
    replied to Dark Secret for my Wraith
    So Slumbering in a watch is endless ticking? And in a statue is cold and dense and claustrophobic?

    It's a way to run Slumber, I guess. The free 0 dot Phantasm-ish thing seems like just adding a power. Slumbering in other types of Fetters should have equivalent benefits. Because that is a benefit.

    Watch out for this becoming the "Henry" show. A 4 dot Fetter with associated Passions and he's buying Arcanoi specifically to deal with that Fetter.... I hope the other players are good with your character always running off to save his brother, Slumber in his...
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Ajax
Ajax
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Last Activity: Yesterday, 09:12 PM
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