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  • you also have thinbloods (and thinbloods have no rights)

    some Princes/Bishops will sometimes capture thinbloods with such psychic powers,
    and of course, thinbloods are more convenient than malks, and probably more reliable than auspex-doers

    can't remember if there were any mortal psychics, vtm doesn't give much attention to mortals in general,
    I'll see if I can find something on the players' guide, but I'm not holding my breath
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  • the giovanni-sabbat enmity has less to do with antideluvians and more to do with the Camarilla

    the sabbat has been historically on the Cappadocian's side, even before the harbingers,
    and some of the cappadocians that associated with them were actually on cappadocius' side

    the sabbat didn't have a clear stance on the augustus vs cappadocius event,

    cappa was an ante, but it didn't matter anymore, since he's dead,
    and whatever faithful followers he still had were just ignorant of the fact that their antideluvian had betrayed them

    meanwhile,...
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  • the setites can stay in the area without too much trouble,
    iirc, the setites in new york never had to leave for how many centuries the sabbat was there (even though they ended up being instrumental in the sabbat's downfall)

    they'll lose clients of course,
    and, while the sabbat is potential for new clients,
    the Inquisition doesn't like them much and will certainly sanction sabbat who repeatedly associate with them

    as for the serpents of the light...we don't exactly know how they operate in those situations,
    they're obvious enemies, but that doesn't...
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  • the Anarchs were united by a methuselah (who I assume was using some high level presence powers), that's what caused the sudden change.
    in fact, many sect wars were caused by methuselah influence (especially around mexico)


    "- Is there any incitament for the Sabbat to attack the Anarch Free State?"

    yes and no
    the sabbat don't consider themselves enemies of the Anarchs, depending on the local authorities, Anarchs can roam free on sabbat territory (they get no protection however),
    and vice-versa, the Sabbat usually roam free on Anarch territory...
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    Last edited by Pleiades; 06-19-2019, 08:10 AM.

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  • Pleiades
    replied to Plague Barer Duration?
    yeah, also the gangrel carrying god-knows-what from feeding from animals,
    sabbat and their ritae,
    if you factor in sabbat diablerie habits, nosferatu being one of their first targets during sieges, and the Camarilla boys being allowed to diablerize during sect wars...imagine the mess

    add to that the fact that in the Camarilla, you can be forced into a blood-bond (from someone with diseased blood)

    it's really unsustainable...
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  • have you missed the all the threads complaining about the lack of night vision in vtm? xD
    not that I necessarly disagree, but less lights means worse vision (there's a penalty for hunting rolls if you don't have auspex or protean), and less pre--...people on the streets at night...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Plague Barer Duration?
    yeah, it would be too hard to avoid disease

    v5 doesn't have anymore detail,
    it says you can infect humans you feed on, but the germs die out in the vampire's system (if I understood correctly),
    no mention of blood letting, and no mention how long it would take for the germs to die out

    so yeah, 20 years later, still not enough details, smh
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  • no one, that sort of thing is perfectly legal and supported by mechanics,
    the only sanctioned actions are masquerade breaking initiatives such as blood cults (that are sanctioned in both sects, but often ignored in the sabbat),

    the Prince (or higher ranking official) can sanction the initiative if it attracts too much attention

    otherwise, rival elders, or any elder who don't like youngers taking too much power for themselves may attempt to sabotage the initiative (by convincing the Prince that it can break the masquerade for example, or by having one of the youngers...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Plague Barer Duration?
    that's because there's none,
    typical white-wolf-being-shy-on-giving-details syndrome

    all I know is that in 2nd ed, diseases were a big deal, and there was a disease that wiped a 1/3rd of the sabbat population,
    (however, it was later implied that some mages were responsible for it (Verbena I believe))

    but at the same time, the book said that that sort of thing should only be a ST hard call if they needed some plot device to make vampiric life even more tragic (as if it needed any more tragedy, amiright?)

    so, yeah, white wolf smh

    but...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Isn't Genius Loci too op!?


    (10 characters long message requirement)...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Isn't Genius Loci too op!?
    you can, actually

    you can bind them with their true name,
    and you can double-bind them if you give them a host and blood bond it...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Isn't Genius Loci too op!?
    I wouldn't say he's forcing them (I wouldn't know),
    but if he's powerful enough to command them, he's powerful enough to pacify them

    he's just not a good example, since his magic allows him to do anything,
    if there was a cainite who had helios friends without magic, that would be quite interesting



    I agree. and for what it's worth, WtA's handling of the umbra is pretty silly imo, and certainly doesn't mesh well with the more..."classy" feel, or dark feel, of vtm

    but at the same time, I feel the other gamelines perspectives...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Isn't Genius Loci too op!?
    except Cretheus has both elemental mastery and spirit manipulation at level 5,
    doesn't matter the spirit's alignment, his magic will bypass it...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Isn't Genius Loci too op!?
    well, they don't disrupt just by existing, vitae usage is what disrupts (disciplines and such),
    this isn't from werewolf btw, it's from Kote,
    kote had a good amount of lore explaining cainite nature,
    and according to it, vampire activity disrupts the flow of chi and such,
    in the crossover scenarios, the kuei-jin had trouble in cainite territories due to cainites not maintaining a healthy feng shui and driving spirits mad

    vampires not being spiritual makes sense, it might just be an aspect of the curse, the one where Caine was cursed to wander the earth for...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Isn't Genius Loci too op!?
    well, the matter is a bit complicated and not very well documented to be honest,
    but, afaik, you're both wrong, since the matter isn't about being nice or bad/corrupt, it's more about vampiric nature

    the regular Garou aren't nice or bad, their nature makes them allied with spirits of Gaia (because they come from Gaia) and enemies of Banes

    vampire nature makes them enemies of Gaian spirits and Helios spirits (sun spirits), maybe other spirits,
    otherwise, other spirits don't care one way or the other,
    not because vampires aren't nice enough or aren't bad...
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    Last edited by Pleiades; 06-11-2019, 07:14 AM.

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  • Pleiades
    replied to Isn't Genius Loci too op!?
    the Inquisition doesn't mind koldun having spirit servants (assuming they care about details),
    they are usually against koldun who got their power from higher spirits in a similar manner that infernalists get dark thaumaturgy,

    an example would be Tlaloc who teaches koldunism in exchange for a piece of the koldun's soul and sacrifices

    however, the koldun will still be subject to Inquisition scrutiny, even if their dealings are clean because...well, most of the Inquisitors aren't very bright, or too extremist and may abuse their power (the usual crap, you know),...
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    Last edited by Pleiades; 06-10-2019, 05:11 AM.

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  • Pleiades
    replied to Isn't Genius Loci too op!?
    also, about obfuscate vs koldun...just don't, it won't work

    koldun speak with spirits, and they have spirits constantly surrounding them whispering things,
    they gonna see your obfuscated dude, and they're gonna tell the koldun you're there

    koldunism isn't the same as thaumaturgy, the koldun doesn't do anything, the spirits do,
    the koldun just gives the orders (so, it's like dominate or presence, except on spirits),
    so the koldun can just tell them to smoke you and they will within the range of his "special" presence, which is what the way of...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Isn't Genius Loci too op!?
    it's the koldun correspondence equivalent,
    every mage school (including vampire blood magic) has their own correspondence, which allows them to expend the range at which they can use their magic

    for the koldun, it's done by expending their spiritual presence,
    and since obfuscate doesn't work on spirits, it makes sense that it wouldn't work on koldun either

    Tremere (and thaumaturgy in general) use the usual hermetic correspondence, I believe, like True Names, to apply magic on any target at any time in any place (which is even worse than koldun imo),
    ...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Why be a vampire?
    not really hypocrisy, it's mostly that there are several factions in the sabbat that had varying stances concerning the infernalists (and demons)

    the main body of the sabbat was tolerant of the infernalists at first, while those who opposed them were only small factions that were drowned and ignored in what was already a mess of arguing factions

    however, infernalism went too far, demons took too much power in the sect and subverted the cainite cause into an infernal cause,
    some were seeing too much competition,
    some didn't like that demons were doing the same...
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  • Pleiades
    replied to Eating Food
    revised edition (3rd edition)
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