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[Ana Mizuki]

Not to toot my own horn, but my favourite use of Stolen Wolf was when an Ahroun was too on the edge and ragey, this was my character's judgement. It worked VERY well for them, giving the ahroun time to breathe.

[Ana Mizuki]

I don't think it is RAW, as much as it is "this is the thing our writers came up with, using this setting." It is the same reason why so many WtA novels leave out game critical facts such as challenges and Rage. For example, I think Song of the UnMaking is the first WtA novel I've read that actually uses most of the setting stuff such as Rage, challenges, gifts, rites and auspices....

[Ana Mizuki]

Kinfolk, rejection of human life entirely and septs/Caerns. Like I've said multiple times in this thread, the kinfolk are the backbone of the Garou Nation. All the fancy things Silver Fangs and Shadow Lords have? Kinfolk owned. Everything they have is bought or made by their kin and so they can focus on being garou. Why should you bother living in squalor when you have people waiting hand and foot to aid you? That is why they are not living like Gnawers and Talons. They live comfy in their septs, supported by their kinfolk.

This is why Glass Walkers in revised TB are said to have...

[Ana Mizuki]

Again, this is just how I see it; But cubhood can last 2-5 years.

Consider the things taught;

Tribal history takes time, teaching safe shifting takes time. Learning of spirits takes time. The Litany takes time, especially the Veil protection. Nevermind teaching the lupus and metis all of this if they were previously denied.

Then there are things like them learning chimanage, different rites and gifts. Combat training, using your homid/lupus form training, etc....

[Ana Mizuki]

Oh no, I don't mean isolation as in being raised with kinfolk, I mean the isolation of being scary to 30-90% of humans and being unable to hold a regular job.

That's the thing with kinfolk, they are the bridge between garou and humans. They don't have Rage, but they can have powers.

Yet, despite WtA being 20+ years old, we still run into this "garou template/npc is a succesful in a field that requires 50% of their time" issue. Which then is impossible by the stats. So, why has it not been changed?...

[Ana Mizuki]

It IS interesting how much in conflict the templates of official books are to the actual rules. I don't mean it as a bad thing, I just mean its weird that they didn't go around and change things over the editions to reflect the templates/NPCs better.

Personally, I like the idea of them starting young and not having much human connection outside kinfolk. Thus making having kinfolk such a HUGE need. Plus it fits with lupus and metis shift ages. I know I'm in the minority on this, but it makes the isolation from humanity that much more meaningful.

If you could just continue...

[Ana Mizuki]

Templates tend to be rather hit and miss, revised OR 2nd ed. As much I'd WANT to say they are accurate, we have a librarian lupus dr.House the Wendigo, the wyrm-tainted Fenrir metis ahroun template for Get of Fenris revised and other such things. Besides, when it comes to setting accuracy, a lot of non-signature NPCs have human jobs (or are an ahroun hockey player.)...

[Ana Mizuki]

Honestly, we are not talking about teenagers between 15-19. We are talking about them being around 11-19, with most garou changing 'round 12-14.

So its simply avoided by most of the potential garou being just plain kids. Kids that have parents watching over them VEEERY strictly in most tribes.

With lost cubs, even then the chances are extremely minimal, since they'd be more concerned about being a monster than anything else....

[Ana Mizuki]

As far as I'm concerned, no. Shattered Dreams is very good and discusses the Bunyip is a very good amount of details, as it does any other time streams. It is a time travel story, so take that into consideration.

[Ana Mizuki]

I mean, then we run into the fun argument of whether sex with another garou et al is litany violation or is the creation of a metis the crime XD

Great for in-game arguments, though!...

[Ana Mizuki]

I'm not going to tell you how to play WtA, but there is a third sentence for me in that line "The monster I must be." Unlike Vampire, garou have a VERY clear goal of their existence; Fighting the Wyrm. Everything and anything is done in service of that goal. It is something you cannot ever give up.

So, in my opinion, even once the garou realise they are utter monsters, there isn't that much they can do about it. Since if they don't act like monsters, the reality as they know it will be corrupted. Even if they hope to make things better once they gain rank, they most likely...

[Ana Mizuki]

That metis was accepted and respected for not taking the easy option, instead living up to the tribe's belief in taking hardship and surviving it. That respect is not something given to every metis.

We are obsessed with killing, because the Garou Nation is extremely likely to kill those who do not toe the line. The fact that metis are allowed to live more often is seen as a BAD thing for more traditionalist tribes. Something tolerated ONLY due to not having any other option. It is not a good thing, but it is part of the setting.

As for intentional metis creation, garou...

[Ana Mizuki]

1. There is a vast difference between two humans wanting a child and two garou wanting a child. First of all, unless we are talking about BSDs, no canon metis has ever been a wanted child. The common narrative of them, troubling or not, is that their parents fooled around and broke up after the female got pregnant. Then at best they give the metis away or worst they have to raise the child themselves. Neither option is ever treated as anything but difficult. Plus there is the thing, garou KNOW that a metis will ALWAYS be significantly disabled and sterile. Most likely will kill the mother and...