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[Ana Mizuki]

Absolutely. High risk and high reward is what I've told players about the Lords. What I like is that they have actually had successes, vs what other tribes have had....

[Ana Mizuki]

Black Fox I actually think the heroic tone works better for the Lords. Because if they were straight-up token bad guys of the tribes, a lot of the nuance they gained in the revised would be lost.

Especially when you take them in the context of what they do to protect Gaia vs what they have accomplished. Shadow Lords are right bastards, they torture, tip-off vampires, maul, make deals with Wyrmy creatures and are extremely cutthroat among each other.

Yet, it is -these- garou who have managed to do one of the bigger reparations to the Fera. Not the Glass Walkers, not the...

[Ana Mizuki]

Oh boy, Shadow Lords do in fact attract players who don't know the difference between "I do awful things for Gaia" and "I am playing Vampire in Werewolf and I want all the stuff!"

That has been a huge issue, which is why Shadow Lord players in online games are observed if they fall into the latter category.

Personally, I like the tribe, because they are one of the few who have done actual work to fix old mistakes. Look at the Lazarite Movement and especially the Children of Bat. This makes them a great opposite to the Silver Fangs, who barely have...

[Ana Mizuki]

It was her resources, because they were in her name.

But that besides the point, earning money through roleplay is no more snowflake than a reluctant garou cub becoming a respected elder through play. PCs change over the course of the game, be it LARP or TT or chat....

[Ana Mizuki]

If it is in-game, they have had to earn it through roleplay, so I don't see why a character like that would be a snowflake. We had a Gnawer theurge hit 4 in resources in one game, because she managed basically half a town's resources. Because no one else would....

[Ana Mizuki]

If that is such a big problem for you, why isn't it caught in the character creation?...

[Ana Mizuki]

At the end of the day, I agree with this. The tribe should have different aspects than just homeless bums. I like the idea of the Rabble, because they serve a good source of garou who do not want to garou but still want safety in numbers.

As for the Struggling merit? The revised tribebook was pretty gun-ho about the inability of Gnawers to hold onto money. Basically, though Jackal's Blood is not a flaw every Gnawer has, the book treats it as the reason why the Gnawers cannot have money. They are spiritually unable to because their jackal's blood will always result in them splurging...

[Ana Mizuki]

I actually think the agency part is the main issue. Bone Gnawers by their concept (the omega wolves, poor, homeless, runts of the litter, etc.) lack agency. While Yellowstone wolf packs (which are WEIRD) have alpha wolves, the omega wolf is entirely a human-created situation. If a wolf does not fit in the pack in the wild, it will leave. But in zoos, they cannot leave and so they must deal with other wolves bullying them. Homeless are homeless often due to situations beyond their control (i.e. throwing the mentally ill to the streets, gentrification) as are the poor.

By their concept,...

[Ana Mizuki]

From what I got from revised tribebook, in the section talking about backgrounds for the characters, Bone Gnawers are apparently INCAPABLE of holding onto money. The tribebook out and out says that the Gnawer will splurge it all and they will eternally annoy their packmates enough to get kicked back to the streets.

I fully agree with you that this makes no sense, especially as characters of other tribes can have resources 0 too. Yet a Get of Fenris Ahroun is expected to have a home and have cool stuff, while a Bone Gnawer Ragabash is stuck on the streets. Basically, the omega status...

[Ana Mizuki]

I'd actually say that it is the reverse. The books go on and on about how most on the street are mentally ill and unable to keep a job, with there being a (very penalizing) merit if you even have a regular address.

Those people who are just temporary homeless are not represented much in the tribe. The assumption is that you are stuck on the streets or mooching off your friends.

In general, WtA has kind of an issue equating social standing among the garou with social standing among humans. This might work for Silver Fangs, but since most garou cannot hold jobs and are...

[Ana Mizuki]

Understand that even if you do not intend it, calling WtA a superhero game is still implying that the game is not delivering on its savage horror side for you.

I might like the superhero game, but I'm also trying to understand the reasons why people do not and what things are the sticking point.

So I thank you for giving your opinions on it, I'll take note of those aspects....

[Ana Mizuki]

Here's the thing; The game should -not- be a superhero story. It is a game of Savage Horror. So if you see it as a superhero story, something about the setting is not working correctly for you. And I'm interested to know -what- it is and how would you change the game to make it fit a Savage Horror label better?...

[Ana Mizuki]

If you feel so strongly about that, could you please lay out your ideal type of werewolf here: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...erewolf-option

I am not joking, I want to hear from people like you WHAT would you like to play instead of the garou?...

[Ana Mizuki]

This is just my personal opinion, but it won't be very superhero if you also take in the WOLF part of the WERE. I personally dislike the mostly human focused way of playing WtA, because it truly does feel like superheroes and not feral beasts.

This is why I always try to put focus on the animal and spirit sides over the human. This might be because I came to WtA not from other tabletop games, but from Wolf RPs. So my focus is different XD...

[Ana Mizuki]

To me, there is also the difference in themes of living and seeing the world between them.

In Vampire, your goal is to survive. Night in and night out, you do your best to see another moonrise. Everything you do is to ensure you may survive and be in favour of the group of vampires you hang out with and the vampire society you follow. You might be interested in the mythology of Cain, but you might as well not be.

In Werewolf, your goal is to see the world survive. Inch by inch, you fight to fix what was broken no matter how desperate. You have a pack, your pack is your...

[Ana Mizuki]

I do, but because its both denial (going from wolf to human smarts is SCARY) and cultural. Talon culture HEAVILY focuses on pretending they are wolves, like, actively. To use a crude example, it is a bit like being in the closet. Only a bit, though....

[Ana Mizuki]

For me, it depends on where the Talons live. In more relaxed areas, they are less likely to go hog wild with bodies. But in areas with a lot of strife with humanity, they tend to get vicious. So in relaxed areas, they just kill the human, but in areas where they are driven to the edge they want REVENGE. Hence why Dying Cubs are a thing.

The view on the Litany also varies. Some really do not bother with the 'we weren't there to decide on it' and just follow it as usual. To some, they feel slighted by the Nation for deciding without the Talons.

(Even though Talons WERE...

[Ana Mizuki]

Once more, why WOULD the garou stay in homid? Especially if it is their breed form. This is not a situation where the Veil really matters anyway.

Black Fox Yeah, survival cannibalism in situations you literally have no other choice I totally could see....

[Ana Mizuki]

Delirium or gifts would handle the 'missing person' issue. If not, then I feel most garou would go underground/change names for a good while.

This is also assuming the garou did not murder everyone in their Rage Up frenzy. Which would go more towards your adventure, since that is much harder to explain....

[Ana Mizuki]

Why would they stick to homid form when they have 3 much better forms to survive in? And all three forms have regeneration and fur on top of everything, negating a lot of the dangers the situation has.

Yes, survival experts say to stay in one place for -humans-, but I imagine a magical shapeshifting reality travelling werewolf with the minimum of the peak of the human condition would fare a bit better in searching for safety.

If the regular humans eventually, after starving for a good while, made a trek to safety I'd say a garou with crinos form would do that with way...