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  • Satchel
    replied to Unpacking the Lair
    Combination of old fatigue with that one discussion from ages ago on the topic, the fact that the penalty shared with imposing Lair Traits doesn't matter for imposing Lair Traits inside the Lair, and the general idea that it's more secure opening a route out of the Lair than into it; an imprecise location offers a sufficient barrier that characters obviously aren't going to try jumping for it all the time, and the penalty for similarity then serves the same purpose from the opposite direction since it's logistically improbable to open a Pathway from outside the Lair to a location you're unfamiliar...
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  • Satchel
    replied to haunts?
    Haunts are standardized and can be used without a Key, while Keys mainly boost the activation rolls, grant you some free plasm, and make the power more likely to roll an exceptional success in certain circumstances, with the cost of a Condition that needs to be resolved in order to use that Key from that source more than once per story.

    They're definitely still broadly applicable in their basic form, though.
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  • Satchel
    replied to A Possible Change To The Lucifuge.
    No and no, Lost. Inferno never actually offered a conclusive origin for the Lucifuge (it would be supremely bad signposting to put a definite answer to a gameline-specific splat's origins in a bluebook), Mortal Remains doesn't "straight rule out" any of the Lucifuge having origins in the Unchained or their maker (the opposite is outright floated as one of their fears), and the Bend preview doesn't do any more than posit the possibility that some of its hunters might draw a line of descent from the God-Machine (which is no more a change to their origin than Mortal Remains's putting up...
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  • Satchel
    replied to It's coming!
    A notable exception: The bans and banes of every Earthbound idigam — even the ones who haven't Coalesced and therefore have a different ban and bane every scene — always have something to do with humanity....
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  • There's a form....
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  • Standing is not the Deviant power-stat, as evidenced by El Centinela not having it....
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  • It's inconsistent between the writeups and the Character Creation page (and within the writeups as well), so maybe submit an erratum, but there's a case to be made for the Burden closest to the dead to have two "become ghostly" Haunts and the Burden concerned with hanging around their old lives to have a Haunt built around equipment and interpersonal connections....
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  • Without knowing much about Wraith's mechanics, I can only tell you that it's effectively equivalent to a ghost's Anchor, but it gives you a thing to actively protect or participate in for Willpower instead of being a thing you regain Essence from prolonged proximity to. They're individual narrative hooks that your character focuses on as a story besides the archetypal roles of their Root and Bloom....
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  • Promethean uses the same progression as well. I get the distinct feeling the fuel dynamic for splats who can literally generate their resources from wholly internal processes is supposed to be different from the one for splats that have to go out and do stuff to build up a buffer.

    On a more particular note, I get the feeling that storage capacity matters more and rate matters less for a splat whose powers are specifically built with access to explicit temporary capbreakers for both of those values....
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  • You can't actually give immunity to a Lair Trait to things that aren't Beasts. You can protect them from the Lair Trait, but that means protecting them from the Lair Trait, not making them immune to the thing that the Trait is.

    The Lair not applying the effects of Blinding Light to a visitor is accomplished by their not being subjected to the thing that the Blinding Light Trait represents, which is a different thing from their being able to be subjected to that stimulus and not react accordingly. The book is pretty clear that the effects of the Lair are real even though they're part...
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  • There's a sidebar on page 103 that explicitly uses a Trait representing blinding desert sunlight causing a vampire to burst into flames as an example of Traits having greater or unique effects on other supernatural beings based on their own weaknesses....
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  • And none of the Tilts Lair Traits apply are "this is sunlight."

    It follows nightmare logic. The books put up the idea that Beasts and their kin are kin because they're similar, not because the Begotten can plug the holes in their relatives' physicality in ways that disregard thematics.

    It's also important to note that the ability to have Lair Traits active and not harm your guests is framed as protecting them from the Tilts, not making them immune to the Tilts, which is a thing that can only be done for other Beasts. You can manifest convenient patches of shade...
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  • I don't know that it works that way; being able to protect guests from Lair Traits doesn't make the manifestations of those Traits stop being the things that they are....
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  • Satchel
    started a topic Unpacking the Lair

    Unpacking the Lair

    Figured I'd run through the logistics of the Lair in broad list format in the name of trying to organize my readings into a more digestible whole. Hopefully I can get this presentation better-looking over time; feedback is appreciated on the matter of whether I'm missing anything major in terms of the Lair as a place.

    Unless otherwise stated, page numbers refer to the core rulebook.

    The Lair in General
    Without the addition of complicating factors like Lair Traits and Merits, the layout of a Chamber is the same as it was when you acquired it, plus any adjustments...
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  • Is there a special mechanic to it that's not part of the token's actual effect? If not, it's Hedge-forged. If so, it's oath-forged or stolen, depending.

    It's important to remember that non-stolen tokens are just grouped the way they are as methods of deliberate creation in the course of a game. Tokens made by leaving something important to you in the darkest parts of the Hedge happen to be the standard from which the other varieties deviate, but it's in the text that tokens can form in less typical circumstances....
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  • My read of the two "hospitality" abilities is, as both nalak and Helms seem to agree, that their main function is to let you host people in the Lair without turning off deterrent Traits rather than to let them get into the Lair at all — it's textually not an impenetrable fortress, after all.

    At the moment the thing I'm most uncertain of boils down to a combination of whether the Uninvited Guests text on how long it takes to get through a Burrow applies to people attempting to leave and whether a Burrow counts as a separate space for the purposes of being in the Chamber...
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  • There's a case to be made that it's not "stabilizing a revenant is bad" so much as "stabilizing a revenant takes a spiritual investment of the self-control and Beast-mitigating ability your character has, which is a resource that requires cultivation and maintenance." You're giving a more definite and established place in the night to another vampire even if your adoption doesn't proceed to the patronage sires traditionally offer their childer — you're making them Kindred, and that takes it out of you.

    Remember, Humanity isn't "these things are bad,"...
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  • Success or failure determines whether you can feed in your intended manner and determine the consequences. Feeding scenes are more about defining how the Kindred interact with the kine than about putting the camera on them maintaining their safety margin....
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  • I… really don't care what it "sounds like" to you, because the first post in this thread — updated as recently as last month — recaps what we've been told about what it is.



    Loyalty is one of those places where the "Deviant is not a superhero game, but superhero media flaws can help understand Deviant" thing seems to live....
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  • To my understanding this is literally one of the main ways Loyalty Touchstones work....
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Satchel
Satchel
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