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  • The point you were making was that my referencing what the book says was incorrect in the context of understanding what the book says. This thread is not about whether the Awakened Tarot is flush with all interpretations of the Tarot in real-world occult traditions.

    Nobody was suggesting that the Acanthus as presented in 2e fit the pop-cultural reading of The Fool. Your issues with erroneous Tarot readings have nothing to do with anything anyone was talking about here — it's not a response to the quoted section in any meaningful sense of the word, and I resent being treated as a proxy...
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  • Because you're looking at the pre-errata version of the book, probably; comparing the two PDFs side-by-side shows that that's one of the things that was fixed.

    Cover explicitly can't be raised with normal Experiences by default; there's a sidebar specifically addressing this on page 115....
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  • Satchel
    replied to Spell control, Mind and Soul
    Because none of the Reach options for the spell get around the specification that the subject knows that the spell's commands aren't their own ideas and spellcasting is an act of will — if nothing else I could see a case to be made for a Clash of Wills being necessary to force a mage to engage with the products of their Arcana against their will....
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  • Satchel
    replied to Acanthus and Forces Arcanum
    It is markedly not, because nobody was talking about "the common stereotype":


    You have a bunch of people who reached basic enlightenment by acting as though they weren't the people their past and station said they were, had an encounter with the secret nature of reality where one wrong step spelled disaster, and came out of it with a symbolic connection to reflective materials and precise weaponry and the ability to warp history and destiny. That does, in fact, track to "the nature of their Awakening suggests the Path of Thorns works best for people who recognize...
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  • Satchel
    replied to World of Darkness 2033
    I feel it's worth remembering for Rule of Winter that Spring's core emotion is Desire, not Hope or Joy — times of scarcity and ruin should, if anything, kick their associated activities into as high a gear as fae politics allows.
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  • Satchel
    replied to Some more Beast Questions
    Given that the Dream's the easiest place to open Pathways to? Seems perfectly within spec....
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  • Hard Leverage can only be applied whilst Forcing Doors and you explicitly can't even roll for Social Maneuvering to open a spirit's Doors without giving it something.

    And Ni Daha doesn't elevate a spirit's relative status in the courts or put Essence in its belly.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the spirit is not seeing any "benefit" out of that artistic representation being used as a targeting symbol in a rite to empower werewolves to hunt it down, particularly if it's not immediately present when you're conducting the rite.

    Methods...
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  • Satchel
    replied to Chronicle Help
    Incidentally, this latter fact combined with the specification of the tree being in "the secluded area" of the park might be decent grounds to have the place be built into a minor locus — perhaps the Manse is a hollow space for storage; depending on how much you feel like tying the familiar and the Sanctum together, perhaps the locus is conceptually resonant with the spirit....
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  • Satchel
    replied to Chronicle Help
    You've also got Option Four: Any of the above Fettered to a raven.

    This seems an excellent place to point out that Spirit Manses count as Safe Places and the possession of a Familiar without dots in Spirit most readily suggests a Mentor with the Arcanum. (It could also suggest run-of-the-mill Status requisitions, but concrete characters are a little easier to keep track of.)...
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  • Pertinent....
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  • Keeping a tab open in the old system required making use of what was supposed to be a limited resource — characters had a finite amount of credit to their name for supporting oaths, vows, and corporals, and the technical out of taking extra mortal corporals was bound up in Social Merits. You far more often saw people looking at the system with the intent of getting a couple of very powerful pledges under permissive strictures and hang the question of wording.

    "Promises to oneself" were literally never actually a thing. The closest 1e came to this was one-sided pledges,...
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    Last edited by Satchel; 05-21-2017, 02:25 AM.

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  • That is not what anything means.

    Gathra is required to get spirits to do things for you without the use of magical compulsion, but plain conversation is generally a matter of talking and listening and remembering that you're dealing with a bunch of monomaniacs and their slightly more rounded superiors.

    2 Essence or an equivalent item from the listing is enough to serve as Soft Leverage for a Rank 1 spirit; spirits that are more powerful and/or more hostile need correspondingly larger tribute to consider doing you a favor.

    If you have no social resources to...
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  • Then it's not even Hard Leverage and it has nothing to do with this thread....
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  • If you don't consider encouraging changelings to collect favors and requiring that they bargain with assets that they actually have access to an advantage in story structure, sure, but "the Lost can pull massive amounts of resources out of the ether by making dire bargains with otherwise unrelated characters" is not something I'm sad to see booted out of the realm of technical possibility. Connections are supposed to matter — it's why Touchstones are such a big deal mechanically in Vampire and Werewolf.

    Wyrd-based entities need to spend Glamour to form or get out of a Sealing,...
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  • That's Spiritual Negotiation 101 — these aren't strictly people you're dealing with. Part of the benefit of using Social Maneuvering to represent the process is that you don't need to use an argument to get a spirit to do what you want it to do.

    What the spirit requires is any payment at all — nothing about the mechanics necessitates that the price a spirit demands be the bare minimum and the fact that hostility directly raises the price a spirit will demand from you is kind of a huge sign that the terms set for an exchange in a relationship modeled through a system that revolves...
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  • A ban is something the spirit has must or must not do under the right conditions. Nothing about the one you've got for Gefjun serves as a compulsion that can be invoked to "put an end to whatever [she] is trying to do."

    Your statblock gives her Possession (and not Fetter, oddly enough). She's a bodyjacking spirit with an agenda — that suggests a much more direct pattern of activity than contriving sacrifices....
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  • Two points of Essence is the bare minimum to convince a Rank 1 spirit to do something through the diplomatic channels represented by Social Maneuvering without Hard Leverage. Stronger and more hostile spirits explicitly require a higher tithe, and framing a negative task* as a favor doesn't make it gathra any more than saying you won't rob me makes me grateful to you for my having dinner that night.

    * Saying you won't do something that's bad for me gives me nothing I wouldn't get by going underground and/or having you murdered in your sleep. Giving me a mildly expensive trinket and...
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  • Satchel
    replied to Spirits as Pagan Gods
    Nobody has been saying this doesn't happen....
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  • Satchel
    replied to Crossover Question - High Speech
    Explicitly not, particularly since High Speech isn't technically a language at all — you might as well try to read a Special Message that's not addressed to you....
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  • Satchel
    replied to Spirits as Pagan Gods
    The fact that the section calls them by those names is not an indication that the spirits assume those names in any way more meaningful than identifying the label as referring to them and picking up the local language like any other spirit does. It is far from unthinkable that Polish werewolves growing up hearing the same folklore that Polish mortals hear would find entities that resemble creatures from that folklore and apply similar names — the practice is no different from the assorted cultural names for various monsters in Dark Eras chapters set in countries with non-English primary languages....
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Satchel
Satchel
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