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  • I forgot Alien Allure was Makara. Almost definately that. Although ugly himself, his gold is quite shiny.

    On that note, bright light (glittering gold) may make a good second lair trait. Need one that is easy to apply. Maze and Crushing are also thematic.
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  • Satchel is mostly correct. You reduce Bashing Damage by 2, Lethal Damage by 2, and all non-Anathama damage by 1. This is important for firearms, because the ballistic armor reduces the incoming damage. Combine with Relentless Hunter and Infestation for ultimate survivability.

    What is effectively 7/3 armor against most attacks (8/6 with a concealable bulletproof vest or 10/4 with modern chainmail) is powerful, but not insurmountable. A hypothetical 5L, 3AP gun will only deal Successes -1 damage while a 5L, 3AP sword will deal Successes +1. Killer Instinct is another +3 damage. Called...
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  • Zuroch, the Iron Bank. Makara Nemesis who is the gilded halls, the piles of money, the chains and gnashing of teeth; as well as the terrible Goblin who keeps its ledger. You wouldn't think something so small, so decrepit, so devoid of heart could be so terrifying and yet: home after home, business after business, every hope and every dream find their way into his ledger next to a number. Zuroch embodies the fear of drowning in debt and punishes those who reach beyond their grasp with terrifying collection tactics. Those who "default" find themselves torn from their loved ones working...
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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    Ashenrogue That involves casting a spell that doesn't end the combat immediately. Also at lower BP vampires have more of a hot topic vulnerability to sunlight. It takes hours to kill them.
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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    I usually see Elders at 100xp and Methuselahs at ST-Fiat xp.

    So. At 50/100xp, there are a LOT of build options I may not be considering. I will instead be looking at combinations Mages need to worry about and visa versa.

    Offhand, at 50xp I expect Gnosis 5 and a 5/4/2/2/2. I expect Space 2+, Prime 2+, and Fate 2+ to be included in that. Time 3+ would be the next benchmark, but most mages will pick their 5th dot and 4th dot for concept.

    At 100xp I expect a Mage to have Gnosis 6 and Arcana 5/5/4/3/3/2/2 that includes Time 4+, Space 3+, Mind/Death/Spirit 3+,...
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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    totalgit Those were or, representing different potential characters. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear. Really, Celerity is all that matters, though. Distraction from Swarm Form *might* be able to help. Protean 3 might even counter all non-Space, non-Mind, non-Forces instant kills presented.

    All characters presented are creation with 0xp.

    Physical Attributes above 5 are explicitly obvious on sight. I seriously question a character's ability to move at *precisely* half speed, including biological functions like breathing, nonstop.

    Custom CT is not being considered...
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 09-08-2017, 12:36 AM.

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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    Double post boo
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 09-06-2017, 04:40 PM.

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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    So! Let's do Combat, because that is everyone's favorite theory field.

    Generally speaking, combat vampires will have Protean 3 (+Swarm Form), Obfuscate 3, Celerity 3, or Celerity 1 + Resilience/Vigor 2

    Mages will come from one of three schools of thought.
    A) Combat Magic. This character will probably get Shadow Name 3 + Themed Cabal and/or some combat spells as Rotes.
    B) All the Buffs.
    C) Who cares about Paradox?

    Going BP 2 / Gnosis 2 is almost definately the best investment for a character, but I will be ignoring that. I am also going to...
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 09-07-2017, 10:21 AM.

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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    Mortal Challenges
    #1: Sympathetic + Fast-Talking 4 + a decent persuasion/subterfuge roll should be able to get in.
    #2 Need to do some Investigating to learn the subject's vice and use it to boost impressions. Then as above.
    #3 Here the mortal struggles. Blackmail and forcing doors are immediate options, but very dangerous.
    #4 Really got nothing but coming alongside to support or intimidation or murder.
    #5 Need some relevant Allies or Status or use social rolls / blackmail on the group directly.

    Mage
    #1 Any can whip up Allies [that security company]...
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 09-06-2017, 11:13 AM.

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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    Maina Assuming that Magic and the abilities of magic is widespread and Mages know that Fate can spawn important resources and allies essentially from thin air it does, in fact, make sense for engage who wants to leverage magic to gain allies/resources/etc would pursue that Magic in character.

    If I, out of character, want to play a serendipitous Mage who is friend to everyone via magic then I will pick the Magic that does it.

    It only takes on a meta feel in this thread because we are doing a bunch of characters and only fleshing them out just enough to serve our purposes....
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 09-04-2017, 08:28 PM.

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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    So lets set some broad goals.

    Challenge #1: Convince [Target] to allow access to [Item or Location] when it is their job not to.

    Challenge #2: Gain an ally and business partner in a venture. It is in their mutual best interests, but they specifically do not trust you. Hostile starting impressions. Get the best deal.

    Challenge #3: A cop or FBI agent has a personal vendetta against you and a small cell of people willing to listen. This either is or is about to be a Hunter Cell with their sights on you. Convince them to drop the case without alerting the broader...
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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    Let's start with a Social Mage. You want Fate 2 on a social Mage for the free merits and Prime 1 for Discern Truth, period. After that you want Mind, Life, or Forces 2. Time 1 for divination/postcognition is probably the best single dot bang for buck arcana from there if we have the luxury.

    Acanthus with Fate 2, Time 1, Prime 1, Mind or Life 2
    Mastigos with Mind 2, Space 1, Fate 2, Prime 1
    Obrimos with Forces 2, Fate 2, Prime 1, Time 1
    Thyrsus with Life 2, Spirit 1, Fate 2, Prime 1
    Moros with Death 3, Matter 1, Fate 2

    Nixing Prime for Mind 3 or...
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 09-04-2017, 04:49 PM.

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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    MIND
    - Level 1: Lots of good information-gathering powers here. Knowing nature, goals, surface emotions, etc. It's Auspex 1-2. Mage Sight can pick out Mind Control.
    - Level 2: Powerful social buffs to build and exploit trust. You also get Dominate 1-2 and Auspex 4. Can Shield against mental powers. You also get all of Obfuscate, basically.
    - Level 3: Attribute / Skill buffs. Can summon and control Goetia (Emphemeral). Instant sleep powers are combat enders. You get deep mind reading and memory alteration.

    PRIME
    - Level 1: Discern Truth is how Mages pierce...
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 09-04-2017, 03:57 PM.

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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    The issue with custom mechanics is that Vampires have custom devotions, then it's all pointless.

    Let's look at the Arcana and see what problem powers Mages have, and let's restrict things to creation traits for now. I will include a CT note on "things this arcana can probably do" to aknowledge them, but not otherwise consider them.

    DEATH
    - Level 1: There isn't much here, but Focused Mage Sight (Death) allows the Mage to scrutinize Vampires. If a Vampire is leaving corpses/ghosts, then they are leaving tractable clues.
    - Level 2: Nothing of note....
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 09-04-2017, 03:34 PM.

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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    I did. It specifically doesn't cover general purpose stuff like "immunity to all attacks."

    For a forum setting, also, you need to not count Creative Thaumaturgy. While it is a core part of Mage, the effectiveness of it is going to be too different from table to table....
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 09-04-2017, 10:03 AM.

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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    General purpose magical defense is handled by Mage Armor, not a spell.
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  • SoulGambit
    replied to Vampire vs Mages
    A *highly specialized* Vampire can wreck havok on a Mage. It involved Resolve 5, Sorcerous Eunich, Coda Against Sorcery 5, Lance's Special FS, and Obfuscate 3+ (all doable at creation). It involves the Kindred having initiative and not losing like a chump on the Clash of Wills, even then. Coda and Sorcerous Eunich *might* apply to Clash of Wills?

    You still need to worry about spells that have no Withstand and do not target you, for instance Ban. Obfiscate comes into play there, where the idea is they never see you coming. This doesn't help against Magey McBuffaton, though.
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  • What days and times were you looking at playing?
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  • I specifically mentioned leveraging mind control against other supernaturals, whether directly or indirectly.

    I would rather stay away from arguments that the setting doesn't make sense or should be changed.
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    Last edited by SoulGambit; 08-27-2017, 09:05 AM.

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  • Kenning and some Mind spells can look at people and just tell whats going on.
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SoulGambit
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