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  • Everyone remember the Plaguebringers questline in Bloodlines? You know, the CDC are in town and it's all because some idiots decided to feed from people with terrible diseases, then formed a cult around the fact that every person they feed on dies? How there's this palpable tension between the Camarilla and the Anarchs over this idea that it's down to "anarch passions", with the Anarchs righteously talking about how people who don't feed responsibly get put down? How this really brings to the fore everything wrong about the two sects, and shows you how messed up Kindred can be when they...
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  • Me, A Bad Storyteller: Conflicts over domain and sect issues are interesting, while simple "feeding scenes" usually don't add much to a story; characters should establish how they acquire blood and largely do it in Downtimes. Feeding should only come to the fore if it is a plot point in and of itself, like when a character's downtimes are consumed by some huge mess they created and they either have to find blood in an unusual way mid-session OR frenzy and create new problems. To simply place focus on the act of feeding itself, as opposed to the institution of feeding (that is, the foundation...
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    Last edited by 11twiggins; Today, 08:48 AM.

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  • I think that feeding should be critical, but take up very little of the spotlight. If that sounds like a contradiction, hear me out.

    Feeding is everything to a Vampire, in the end. It's your powers, your immortality, your joy, your protection. It's what heals you, protects you, satisfies your beast. Without blood you're going to die or lose control to the beast.

    So the very start of our Vampire's story is a panic; how do they establish a blood supply? How do they hunt without pissing off the powers that be? How do they do it without drawing the attention of hunters, rival...
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  • Haqim was the first Assamite Sorcerer. He was also the first Vizier and the first Warrior, since he was Mystic, Judge and Soldier. He embraced childer who became members of the different castes that reflect him; Clan Assamite is plural, threefold, not a singular clan with two bloodlines. Clan Assamite is one of my favourites, FYI ;-) and Haqim is the founder of all three castes, which are technically co-equal (but because Warriors are the ones who are common around most of the world while the other castes are more insular, that effects perceptions somewhat).

    And the first Daughter...
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    Last edited by 11twiggins; Today, 05:42 AM.

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  • Time of Thin Blood is the latest book covering inceptors; it makes it clear that you need to be 14th or 15th generation to create a new Discipline. Outcasts is an outdated sourcebook on that matter I believe.
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  • And every clan has an undercurrent or subculture which can fit into other clan's roles. You have the occasional politicking social Brujah; Brujah Primogen and Princes come from somewhere afterall. Of course they need to be tough to command respect from other Brujah, but plenty of rebels cool into cogs in the machine. You get your high-class Cassandras who use Mask of 1000 Faces and get invited to Toreador soirees. You have Gangrel like Becket who deal in tales and stories and theories, more bardic than wildly nomadic. You have Ventrue who are socially dominant, but not among elites; Ventrue who...
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  • Oh yes, good point. I had forgotten what happens when you mix up the order. But yes her contractor seems to have decided that if someone can figure out a really simple puzzle that they should be able to slice up the paintings......
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  • The most common ways bloodlines are created:

    - Magical experimentation: Nagaraja, Tremere, Kyasid (allegedly), Gargoyles

    - Embrace of supernaturals: Giovanni (Sorcerers), Kyasid (fae-touched mortal, allegedly), Maeghar (various fae-touched mortals), Daughters of Cacophony (allegedly)

    - Significant member of 4th/5th Generation Founded Bloodline: Ahrimane, Samedi, Kyasid (possibly?!), Children of Osiris (originally), Old Clan Tzimisce (potentially), Giovanni (partially; some early Giovanni are essentially Cappadocians who are called Giovanni by custom, it's...
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    Last edited by 11twiggins; Yesterday, 04:48 PM.

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  • I like the Assamites having 3 castes, since the idea is that Haqim was a polymath. And the Ventrue of the middle east are the Ventrue (or El Hijazi). The Viziers are academics and diplomats, and are a tad more esoteric in their interests; as their name implies they tend to be advisers rather than rulers. The Ventrue may be Diplomats, but they're rulers and politicians.

    And what I like about the representation of the Assamites in V20 is that they're this fractured clan who are at the center of the Ashirra, but they're also a presence in the Sabbat and the Camarilla. They're coded somewhat...
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    Last edited by 11twiggins; Yesterday, 12:55 PM.

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  • Well with Pure Blood... from a traditional perspective, those with strong blood won't be Caitiff. Caitiff arise where the blood was weak. Those with strong blood will inherit the characteristics of their clan.

    There is an interesting angle on this though, which could justify it; they're more closely linked to the 1st and 2nd Generation than the 3rd. This would be heretical to many, but to Panders and some Noddists it would be a point of focus and worship.

    So "Pure-blooded pre-clan Noddist Elder Caitiff" could be a very strong concept. Have him as a student of...
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    Last edited by 11twiggins; Yesterday, 12:05 PM.

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  • I feel like you've just cobbled together a series of powers you find cool and exciting, and used a Caitiff Elder as a sort of reason to develop all of them.

    What I would say is that concepts are MUCH stronger when you build them up as a character first, even if they do end up being mechanically powerful.

    For example, if you were to work with the idea of a Caitiff with blood magic, you could create an academic character who was a relatively weak sorcerer when they were embraced; in the aftermath they developed their own style of blood magic which is unique to them (meaning...
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  • It's the classic setup; rogue, cleric, barbarian, egyptian, transilvanian. You find them at every table.

    I think there's something essentially eurocentric about some discussions on this topic, especially considering that both humanic and vampiric society originated in the middle east in this setting. A clan primarily based in France or Germany historically? Fitting and normal and essential. A clan historically associated with Egypt or the middle east? Gimmicky, best left to a supplement, niche.

    Of course "American or European court" has always been the default...
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    Last edited by 11twiggins; Yesterday, 11:42 AM.

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  • Not a very good defense though; it's only triggered AFTER you've sabotaged each of the paintings....
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  • - Indeed. Something being intentional doesn't make it good however.

    - The word "shriek" is quite heavily coloured. And creative vision isn't a defense in and of itself. If V5 had a vision of all Vampires discussing their problems nicely over tea (they can all drink tea now) then "it's the writers' vision" would still be a piss-poor defense. What I would like to see more of (and I have seen some!) is people actually saying why they think the vision is a good one.

    - Again, their intention doesn't mean much in and of itself. If this is meant to be the...
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    Last edited by 11twiggins; 09-18-2018, 12:40 PM.

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  • There's a lot to be said for version changes, artwork, different takes on theme/mood, tweaks to mechanics, and extra content (the odd bloodline, variation, path, detail on sects...).

    With that said if I could change one thing I would make V20 more ambitious, and I've written a lot about the things it should have done....
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  • https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ersary-Edition

    This PDF has a cool system for the independent clans, their Disciplines, and their blood magic and Paths of Enlightenment! Also describes how they fit into and work with the sects...

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  • The brotherhood of the 9th circle only works if you ignore all of the Zombies they've created... ;-)

    But this is a good way of listing it!

    The Sheriff is definitely Laibon.

    I also feel like it's worth noting that Andrei's creations, hunting the tape, fighting through the sewers... it takes up a good chunk of the game. So I think "horrible sculpted monstrosities" deserve a spot.

    There's also the Lasombra! That sidequest got overlooked by quite a few playing the game of course. There's also "The Cathayan" who you can fight in...
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  • Furthermore young confused kindred, and jaded older kindred... they're looking for a new thrill. And this kind guy will join you indulging in pleasures. Kinky sexual feeding with beautiful blood dolls. Or religious rapture. Or drug-infused blood. Or the fun of being a religious figure to a cult of ghouls, who see you as someone to worship and obey.

    And it's great fun! And most likely they don't even want to harm you, or even "use" you. They just want you to be in a position where you'll be a part of the cult. And what's wrong with that?

    A lot is wrong with that,...
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  • Completely agreed. The Setite, like the Nephandus, shows up and asks you what you need. "If you're scared of Hunters, I can teach you this little trick..." and this guy, untrustworthy as he seems, does teach you to remain in Obfuscate while you're asleep, and teaches you the best places to hide in your haven, so even if ghouls or hunters do storm in they'll have a hard time finding you or hurting you (short of arson). Maybe he also tells you how to fireproof your haven. And all the while he's suggesting fun things you can do together, and affirming your positive beliefs and challenging...
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  • Assamites and Setites and Giovanni add a lot to the setting. Independents are a wild card; are they furthering their clan's agenda? Their own? That of a sect? Who is paying them? Are they playing all sides? Or are they just a judas goat caught up in the middle of all of this? Isn't it convenient that this trail leads to a scary Vampire from a clan of diablerists/cultists/necrophiles that most people fear and hate? Or are they as bad as everyone says?

    The three clans are very mercenary and they give a sense that VtM exists in a living, breathing world. A Vampire descended from Cainite...
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11twiggins
11twiggins
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