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  • Sullivan Dane: Sullivan Dane is not getting any older. This is something that's bothering him and not immediately apparent given that he aged to roughly 50 and he's not 100% his former self but he's not exactly weak for his age either. It's just the past twelve or so years that would put him in retirement age just haven't affected him and he's beginning to notice.

    There's also the fact that miracles happen around him. He could always drive away Kindred with the power of his faith and see things that were hidden by supernatural power but now it's flat out happening regularly -- which...
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  • At the very least everyone has the ability to make their beliefs count for themselves.

    A Malkavian may believe a Stop Sign talks to him and his TV but if that guy slaughters the Prince of Los Angeles, he's made his ridiculous beliefs count.

    Certainly despite its immaterialness, good vs. evil has an enormous impact on Kindred society as it defines, "What do I believe? What will I do? What won't I do? How far do I hold the Beast at bay."

    But that's just my two cents.

    Also, it certainly DOES influence how groups like the Anarchs fight...
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  • It's a meaningless concept unless you believe that someone ascribing meaning to it counts. In which case it becomes ALL meaning.

    Just because it's only your conception of good and evil doesn't make it any less valuable because you're the only head that matters. Its the one under your control....
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  • Fantastic write-up and I should have mentioned how much I appreciated this thread from the very beginning more often. Some parting comments.

    * I always figured the Giovanni were part of the Fourth Crusade since the sacking of Constantinople and the looting of that ancient city by Crusaders was driven by the kind of families the Giovanni are descended from. As such, they would have either wiped out the Greek branch of their family or had it destroyed by vengeful servants of Michael.

    * I am surprised that there's not more literal color in the faces of the Italian branches...
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  • CTPhipps
    started a topic Update a canon NPC to 2020

    Update a canon NPC to 2020

    This is a pretty simple game and one I'm sure everyone gets the basic idea of. You are a White Wolf developer and have been given the option of updating any NPC in the history of the World of Darkness to 2020. You don't have to adhere to the rules or setting of V5 if you don't want to but it's certainly an option. So, feel free to do alternate versions of Jan Pieterszoon, Theo Bell, Lucita, Modius, or whoever.

    Just envision how the characters may have changed from the classic WOD to the present circumstances and why.

    Have fun!...
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  • Yeah, it's the irony that the worst thing some Kindred can do is succeed in your society. You have a choice of freedom or power. It's like the Centauri Emperor in Babylon Five.

    "It has occurred to me recently that I have never chosen anything. I was born into a role that was prepared for me. I did everything I was asked to do because it never occurred to me to choose otherwise. And now, at the end of my life, I wonder what might have been."...
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  • Sadly, I figure the Camarilla will expect her to be Primogen now....
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  • I thought we met Hope killed her sire, Cara, in COTERIES OF NEW YORK but she's retconned as having Carter Vanderweyden as her sire here. I find that weird and would have thought he'd be a better candidate for her GRANDSIRE.

    Also, I kind of feel bad for Hope. All of your coterie goes through some serious damage post your death (or blood bonding). However, I think Hope has the most ironic hell of them. She's being forced to become her sire that she despised and is doing the exact same thing Cara was doing for the Camarilla.

    Basically, she's just slotted into the exact role...
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  • I actually don't use either system. I find the system the least important part of the game and rarely bother with doing anything more than keep a vague track of Humanity and Path scores when running games. I generally run a bit like Jason Carl in that the system is there but I only call for rolls at dramatically important time.

    How do I run morality in V5? I ask the players to describe their Morality System and then make a score of it. Then if they violate that morality then they lose a point. Sometimes if dramatically appropriate, I let them gain a point.

    It's more or...
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  • I think that if you provide an answer rather than let PCs work it out for themselves that you've done a poor job as an ST.



    Literally, that is the premise of Mass Ascension and the goal of every faction.

    Similarly, most vampires can't actually handle being a vampire. You can be a vampire and live long by either being very human or very inhuman but rarely do fence sitters survive....
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  • Eh, I don't think my game would be interesting without the other side represented. The confusion is where the drama exists.



    Depends on the Elders.

    I think Annabelle is a Elder who hosts parties of art, music, occasional orgies, and blood tastings.

    Helena would be annoyed they don't include mass murder and burning Christians like she used to enjoy with Nero and give them a swipe left.

    Because Toreadors are the worst....
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  • Yes, they're humans called vampires.

    And before you say all the superpowers make them not human, almost all of them can be done by humans called mages.

    And every human being can become that....
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  • At the end of the day, vampires are just humans with violent psychosis. Giving into that violent psychosis is just the same as a human deciding to be a mobster.

    Some vampires have delusions of being more but, sadly for them, it's just a delusion.

    ...
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  • Yeah, but Shovelheads and Neonates make up a majority of the Sabbat. I also don't see them moving out of the "revel in being an evil asshole" stage until their Ancilla years.

    As for PCs, that depends on what kind of character you want to be. Do you want to be an alien inhuman Cthulhu cultist or mad scientist? Be on a Path.

    You want to be a guy who does crazy shit for fun? Be on Low Humanity....
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  • Older Sabbat have morality systems that reject human morality and consider it baby-like. They're the Doctor Doom, Magneto, Apocalypse, and Red Skull types.

    Younger Sabbat revel in being called evil and amoral. They're the Joker, Green Goblin (not Norman Osbourne), and Carnage types.

    At least, IMHO....
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  • Sabbat: Is it evil to consider mortals to be valueless as anything but food?

    Anarch: YES!

    Sabbat: Well now you're just prejudiced!...
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  • CTPhipps
    replied to Some ideas and questions
    Depends on the speaker. One of the interesting twists in the novels was that the Demons who believed God "smote" the cities of Demon Kind may have actually been God intervening to keep reality from collapsing due to all the hacks on the laws of physics that Demons had made to make human life easier....
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  • Which would be the case if I remotely handled it that way.



    Just added my view on the Sabbat!...
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    Last edited by CTPhipps; Yesterday, 03:12 PM.

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  • Here's a rough chart for me:

    The Camarilla: The Camarilla officially makes a statement that you're supposed to keep down on murder and death but it's mostly an issue of making sure that the bodies are disposed of. As long as you never lead a trail for the police, journalists, or families to follow then have at it. A lot of Camarilla vampires try to not feed enough to kill and it is considered the "normal" practice. Accidents happen, though, and you're expected to feed bad about it for a day or two. Regular murder for money happens a lot too because Kindred have freedom from...
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    Last edited by CTPhipps; Yesterday, 03:11 PM.

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  • The Morality Thread - How evil are your Kindred?

    I thought this would be a good topic for our forum because it's come up in numerous discussions across multiple threads that everyone has a different opinion on just how blackhearted the NPCs of V:TM should be and what qualifies as an entertaining level of inhumanity for player characters. Some people really like playing Sabbat who have abandoned the morality of the cattle (and why not? They're not human anymore!) while other people feel like the game loses something if your characters aren't trying to struggle just a little against the mindless violence that is embodied by the Beast.
    ...
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CTPhipps
CTPhipps
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Last Activity: Today, 01:15 AM
Joined: 06-17-2016
Location: Ashland, Ky
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