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  • Your words chief. "Just because i'm telling you what your views are and saying they are the product of an unhealthy mentality doesn't mean I'm saying you are mentally unhealthy, just your views!" Is certainly interesting.

    I do appreciate that we're done with the peak Internet of picking out a post that had nothing to do with you, mocking it, mocking the poster, arguing at length that you had every right to in response to that going unappreciated for some mysterious reason, then some more insults. Demanding all the while that not accepting the added aspect of "you're...
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    Last edited by MarkK; 08-10-2018, 08:37 PM.

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  • Dude, you're at the point where you're trying to argue you have the right by logic to mock people saying things you don't like as reflecting lack of mental health while protesting that you're not being addressed maturely.
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  • Aah, sorry, wasn't meaning to imply the suggestion was otherwise lacking, my apologies for that, my own stylistic leans are just more florid....
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    Last edited by MarkK; 08-10-2018, 08:49 PM. Reason: Realized i qualified the apology

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  • This in in reply to tasti man's reply to me:

    -
    i take you to be the guy who looked at a post, decided their own statements are so correct that any post in your wake saying a thing you disagree with can only mean the poster is just incapable of reading a forum thread, then derided it on that basis. The person who is doubling down on that by going so far as to suggest either this is necessary for the mental health of the forum or just reflects badly on the mental health of people saying things you don't like.

    Either way, if you want to consider that reasonable, I...
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    Last edited by MarkK; 08-10-2018, 05:04 PM.

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  • They could claim, not entirely without justification, that the Iron Paladins violate the various defining oaths one makes in order to be a Gwydion, and the founding pledges of Gwydion and his followers themselves and try to make hay out of that as far as having legal right to them, be all "they have slighted the Tuatha themselves!" as far as why they have jurisdiction. If you want this to lead to epic faerie courtroom drama, the Iron Paladins in question could be all "in fact I am totally fulfilling them from my bent and dark perspective!" and demand some kind of trial/hearing...
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    Last edited by MarkK; 08-10-2018, 09:48 AM.

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  • I'm not sure what you feel you're responding to at this point? You complained that people shouldn't be thinking this could possibly end up influencing NuWhiteWolf's take on changeling because you've logic'd that away, in your own opinion, and feel like you're being ignored. I point out I'm not reacting to you at all (you're not even the thread starter) and going off of what read as a post suggesting this could totally have influence in some fashion, and in a way that felt distressingly plausible for what it pointed out about the heft of the people involved, alongside the company's demonstrated...
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    Last edited by MarkK; 08-10-2018, 09:32 AM.

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  • ​The post almost right after yours was from a guy noting "Officially approved by white wolf" with a big ol grin and "by the group who did the Convention of Thorns". It makes it feel like, despite your notes, that this is something that nuwhitewolf could choose to lean into anyway.

    Considering that V5 did things like ignore V20 taking the Week of Nightmares out of canon (in order to put it right back in) and the massive shifts otherwise to setting and the like, "we're ignoring what C20 went with to say the plot of Changeling instead will go this way"...
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    Last edited by MarkK; 08-06-2018, 02:47 PM.

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  • I really hope this isn't some indicator of the metaplot NuWhiteWolf wants to go with for when they get around to Changeling, because, just, wow. On the plus side it's working wonders for making all the issues I had with the one in C20 feel tiny by comparison....
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  • ​Exactly. At this point White Wolf have put a lot of time and, relative to rpg publishing scales, money into this version of VtM. For better or for worse going forward, this is VtM now. Anyone hoping that they'll walk something back or change their minds or response to some people not liking a thing... the odds are so low in my view as to be miniscule. It's why "this iteration of the game has no place for you then" feels more realistic/acknowledging of a response than "despite everything you don't like and feel pushed out by, you should keep toughing it out in the desperate hope...
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  • ​An organization that once in its history had cohesive international reach but ultimately lost most of that, focuses now on being a select exclusive authoritarian club for vampires that wants to hold authority over the rest but ultimately is lucky to have mostly cut off from each other groups that control some cities, and has a bunch of ornate structures and policies that it can't necessarily apply beyond itself to even all the vampires within a given city it has a presence in, is leaning into the thematics of the Invictus (especially the VtR 1e Invictus) pretty heavily. Repeating words and...
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  • ​Given that, for instance, the nature and reach of the Camarilla have sweepingly changed/been sundered/reduced, it reads like being reduced to a ersatz Invictus as far as, again, heavy Requiem thematic influence. That kind of by definition would make it impossible to feel like VtM for people who were into things like the previous shape of it. There's a difference between change and, changed so far as to feel verging on not being all that recognizable.

    Anyway, given how committed White Wolf are to this iteration of the setting, it seems pretty unlikely the Camarilla book will go...
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    Last edited by MarkK; 08-02-2018, 09:33 PM.

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  • ​It's kinda hard to see how that's not the thrust of your take here with regards "then you were doing vampires wrong" when your entire post is about how people who don't game that way are.. doing vampires wrong, with actual near verbatim words of "here's what you fail to comprehend about how vampires should be then". Complete with "you don't like the idea that your touchstones can be threatened then because you want to be unassailable" implication. It should be possible to feel some mechanical burden from failing your personal code without needing it to be a person....
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  • And when does the Sabbat book hit?...
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  • ​If your belief in a philosophy, faith, or ideals can't meaningfully exist without a specific mortal person to represent it, it didn't really exist all that meaningfully. That's not faith in God, that's basically faith in parish priest X. It's also honestly kinda telling that you jumped right to "not doing it this way would be bad gaming anyway/you're just some drama queen wanting an excuse to monologue". Again, I get that V5 is the harsh on the people who don't game the way you want to edition, that's been made clear a whole lot of times in these discussions.

    ​And that's...
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  • ​Did these things that they intend actually make it into the corebook as far as rituals? From the things people have read the book at this point have said, it seems like not.

    If not, it was kinda one thing to hear "you're complaining about stuff when you don't even know the final result" a few weeks back, it's something else to be told what the final result is and to now hear "well this book that isn't coming out for months on end will maybe have something you're looking for as an option"...
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  • I'm not even really talking full bore paths of enlightenment there, though yes, that's definitely impacted as well for people that enjoyed those. Even just playing things like religious characters, or characters who take meaning from a particular real world ideology, even humanists who try to bolster themselves by philosophical meditation or the like. Or honestly, even just characters who believe in a given concept so strongly that it is a force in their life. Living mortal or you just as it turns out don't really actually believe it all that much. And especially that first thing, vampires who...
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  • ​That's some pretty pronounced "you can't really believe in anything unless a living human represents it" stuff then from how you make it sound. And I'm sure people want to respond with "exactly!" But for people who want to explore things like issues of faith or philosophy as a character's internal struggle they try to come to terms with, that puts doing so with any resonance that much further out of reach....
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    Last edited by MarkK; 07-28-2018, 11:18 PM.

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  • As more of this info comes out, this really feels like the edition of VtM for people who really, really liked Requiem considering how much stuff it looks to be grabbing from it. Down to its setting approach of broken from a wider scale and idiosyncratic in structure societies in any given city.

    ​But that doesn't really leave much for people who did not, in fact, like Requiem at all....
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  • ​That's less hilarious and more "stuff I dreaded about this game"....
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MarkK
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