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  • The main problem with this, and the reason that pushed anarchs aside in the writers priorities, it's that "eating the rich" and "join any socio-political movement" has a limited reach when your rich is Chtuluh, and when behind him there is a whole cadre of Yog-Sothoth.

    Yeah, you can fight Lodin, but Lodin is just a pawn in the hand of the primogens, and every anarch in Chicago was a pawn of the primogens, which by the way where pawns in the hands of the Methuselahs, who in turn where the pawns of the Antediluvians.

    This is why the counter-culture thing...
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    Last edited by Undead rabbit; 02-13-2019, 08:37 PM.

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  • Besides what he said is just untrue. Since 2nd ed there is plenty of material focused on how to become the king or the kingmaker: the appendix of Chicago By Night 2nd ed about vampire politics, Elysium:Elder's Way, Council of Primogen, Archon's and Templar, Guide to the Camarilla, Prince's Primer and so on...

    It might have been true in 1991, that princedom and kingmaker's title were unreacheable. But the whole point of Chicago By Night 2nd ed (1993) was to become the kingmaker, Diablerie Britain was about an Archon's chronicle.

    Just think that New York by night was created...
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  • Actually since the early first edition Anarchs were already set to be some kind of "tragic losers". Since Chicago By Night showed the Jyhad the whole Anarch's thing become much less attractive.
    It isn't much usefull to be free if you are just blood bonded or manipulated by an ancient elder or a sleeping Methuselah. The whole story arc of the Anarchs in Chicago was a sad story of useful pawns. Not that the remaining Camarilla's vampires were not pawns, but the Anarchs had something dramatic in them: they believed in what they did, and their fight was meaningless. They rebelled againts...
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  • Ah, you avoided a direct answer. Good to know.

    Besides, check your books: Bane's return is 3d edition, Szass's coup was in the 4th edition, same for Telamont's rampage. Everything I said happened AFTER 2nd edition.

    Now, again, let's try for a direct answer: in which way is Ur-Shulgi more disruptive than Bane's return, Szass' coup or Telamont's conquest?...
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    Last edited by Undead rabbit; 02-12-2019, 05:58 PM.

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  • And are you expected to kill Elminster, Bane,Cyric,Larloch, Asmodeus or Orcus?

    In which way is Ur-Shulgi more disruptive than Bane taking over the Zentharim and purging the followers of Cyric?

    Is Ur-Shulgi more cataclismatic for the Assamite than it was Szass Tam coup among the Red Wizards? One day you are one of the top dog evil-society in Faerun, the day after the Zulkir of Necromancy has killed you all and made a beggar of you.

    And are your players expected to kill Telamont Tanthul? level 20 mage, Archmage 5, Netherese Spellcaster 10, after he razed half...
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    Last edited by Undead rabbit; 02-12-2019, 05:48 PM.

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  • Undead rabbit
    replied to Founder powers
    Ghenna was a bad supplement, like basically Evert TOJ's supplements with the exception of Ascension.
    On the other hand the late 2nd-revised take on the antediluvian as chtonic blood gods was one of the best thing of the setting
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    Last edited by Undead rabbit; 02-12-2019, 05:00 AM.

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  • Nope. The only real contender would be Mage Revised....
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Undead rabbit
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