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  • Very well then. I'll still use it as a handy form for "real world".
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  • It's sprinkled through 1e material as slang for what True Fae call the real world. I can't claim credit, nor do I have the material in front of me to cite.

    --Khanwulf...
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  • Or didn't fail, because you agreed to be released for a little while (explicitly or implicitly) and haven't been "called back" yet after your time Ironside is up? Changelings may not even remember such bargains, because their memories of Arcadia fade. (This is still a thing, right?)

    --Khanwulf...
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  • Yeah, as I was writing that I realized that what was coming out was a aspect of the normal spirit/host and urged/claim mechanics, only applied to concepts and locations writ large instead of individuals. So what do you do with the spirit of [civilizational decay?] as a host? I mean it probably didn't even exist as such when Father Wolf was wrecking stuff and his pangaean prey were breaking apart to survive... but perhaps it's an idigam that's emulated pangaean host methods? How would you even fight that?

    And of course, there's the Contagion. Let me leave with a conceptual note drawn...
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  • Based on the clan books the Daeva had a strong presence in the near-east, while the Mekhet were firmly Egyptian. Both Nos and Mekhet would work very well as shadows to the living tribes, especially in an environment of semi-nomadic tent-dwellers. Gangrel could work as well of course, with the obvious advantages of Protean.

    Since you're basing the most codified origins back to Egypt (which is highly defensible), it would make most sense to adapt Theban using sacraments and blasphemies. One angle to possibly take is to highlight the role the vamps decided to take as instruments of...
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  • Oh I bet there' some interesting encounters there, in the process out of Egypt. Hmm. Wonder who it was who confronted Moses' family on the way in, whom Zipporah placated with a circumcised blood offering, eh?

    So here you're linking back to a figure we could assume was embraced in Egypt, from among the sojourning Israelites in the 400-year stay. So a member we would assume of the long-lived Great Covenant, and devoted filially to the protection of the living in Goshen--who we can understand were well-regarded in Egypt for a long time. Interesting.

    --Khanwulf...
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  • I really like the idea that Dracula in VtR has been deeply occulted and though he's pretty happy with the way the Ordo Dracul and Coils/Scales turned out, that wasn't his main point.

    He may not have even invented the coils--he just taught the foundations to his "brides" and let them advance the concepts.

    --Khanwulf...
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  • Personally I'd reskin Lancea with a fresh coat of pseudo-religious paint to mesh with Judaic practices and take a subset of Theban Sorcery based on handwaving some kind of association with the Key of Solomon, first Temple and the king's library of wisdom. Maybe focus on the binding of unclean spirits or somesuch. Mix in heretical factions that swerve toward Lilithian interpretations justifying why monsters are permitted to harass mankind.

    Look, you can do Lancea as a separate religious movement tailored to the needs of the long-dead, or something locally current to the practices...
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  • Given that Jewish culture pre-Roman diaspora has been typified by periods of drifting theological practice punctuated by extended purges and cleansings, you could reflect on the effects of torpor on the "flock" and the measures needed to excise rot in the flock once the most zealous awaken. As an example, certainly the story of the Exodus is typified by "this is what it takes to kill impure behavior in a body politic--with fire!"

    Modern cultural sensibilities don't align well with that, but if you really, really absolutely have to make the policeman in people's...
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  • I think that Ventrue Life's comment was that you could mechanically reuse the Lancea, not that the Abrahamic origins made it appropriate to dump the three major religions and various minor sects with millions of theological man-hours behind them into one convenient bucket.

    And to reinforce the point, Lancea is the Covenant that helps define a vamp's relationship with a higher moral authority. (Circle cults help define her relationship with pseudo-peer if perhaps more powerful divinity figures/self.) A Jewish-centric Covenant or mystery cult will have a similar role, or it's not really...
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  • Ok, this is helpful: so basically iron showing up is a surprise unless it's obvious or actively assumed: e.g. you're in an iron-heavy environment, or dealing with a known iron-wielder.

    And sounds like there is literary license to describe the impact of iron without forcing characters to go through mechanical side-effects other than the damage. Cool.

    It's always good to sketch out the boundaries of design intent, with these things, thanks.

    --Khanwulf...
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  • Iron. We know the mechanical effects of it on Changelings and True Fae. But...

    1. How sensitive are they to its presence? Could a Changeling or True Fae sense it much as werewolves smell silver? If so, would Changeling senses get dulled over time by the iron-rich environment of, um, Ironside?

    2. It harms them, but does it affect them by touching it (nausea, hives, psychological aversions)? Or does the symbolic power of iron fade for Changelings in particular as the acclimate?

    3. Are there Merits representing severe iron issues or the suppression of same?...
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  • The hunt is about chasing down your prey and making it submit to you, the wolf on top.

    If said uppity spirit is right there, waving its middle tentacle at you and your pack, there's no hunting involved is there? I mean... you could always tell it. "We're going to count to 10, then chase you down in our Sacred Hunt. If you make it fun, we may leave a bit of you for next time. Start running."

    Or, just rip its [face] off. And eat it.

    --Khanwulf...
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  • Well there are Judaic sorcery rumors going way back (Solomon especially, "wisdom" being associated with magic), so you can pick and choose what to work with. One of the reasons I posed the questions above is because a Judaic Covenant is going to be under pressure to fragment at various points, and bits of it (even, large bits) might gravitate away to join the superCovenants such as Lancea--but only after 400 when that group really got off the ground following the destruction of the Senex.

    I'll also tender that, were it to exist, Longinus might have been influenced in his...
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  • Perfect another ritual that fuses it with diablorized human souls [and blood--lots and lots of blood] until it can?

    (I mean really, what would you do for your child?)...
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  • A comment first: generally modern Covenants are presented as cutting across cultural lines, however during Dark Eras there have been examples that were more geographically and culturally focused, primarily because they had distance between themselves and more inclusive competitors that gave them space to thrive. As the major Covenants evolved they hoovered up these more minor entities and they have become contemporarily forgotten. That's not to say X or Y vamp doesn't know of them--or even was a member at one point, just that they have re-invented themselves past that phase and it's irrelevant...
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  • Khanwulf
    replied to A ridiculus small question
    Now that would be an interesting Lodge patron....

    Edit:
    Reapers, Carrion Crows--Uratha sworn to Ending of Days in the Lodge of the Last Breath--hunt the last moments of the scions of Father Wolf--be they Forsaken or Pure, and consume them. They believe that upon the harsh line of separation between life and death there exists true purity and the summation of their father's law and existence. They claim that in fact his death was necessary and inevitable in order to fulfill his Law, rather than pursue it as Father Wolf did during life. Similarly, the Hunt exists as a process...
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    Last edited by Khanwulf; 11-07-2018, 01:11 PM.

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  • Khanwulf
    replied to A ridiculus small question
    Yeah I mean this is expressly in "stuff happening to NPCs" territory with the specifics of my situation and you can coach that as needed to accomplish the dramatic action. There are things, powers and situations that even very powerful uratha don't come back from. That they *shouldn't* come back from, because the emotional resonance of passing on could be more important than their lives, even.

    Similarly, if an uratha needs to take one last heroic or villainous action before expiring? Let 'em.

    So, given the basic healing capabilities, I guess I'll go with "death...
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    Last edited by Khanwulf; 11-06-2018, 10:34 PM.

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  • Khanwulf
    replied to Dhampir Embrace
    One simple way to rig it for the characters involved would be to set their destiny as a dhampir to "become/avoid becoming a revenant on death" or "become/avoid becoming embraced". That would effectively hack the immunities that "everyone knows" dhampir have. Or whatever the excuse in canon might be.

    --Khanwulf...
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  • Khanwulf
    replied to A ridiculus small question
    Anything that could constitute a "mortal wound" with enough time for last dramatic words? Other than tricky and opaque healing-cancellation powers of course....
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Khanwulf
Khanwulf
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