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  • First, I think all this is awesome and thank you for it Tessie.

    Generally they'll need some way to heal, and if they don't do it automatically (which is fair since that's a LOT of damage reduction) then spending essence in order to heal the same amount the Uratha do would be appropriate I think.

    Perhaps they can earn essence from burning things, melting metal and rock and the like, as well as humans? That way they could keep Consuming Form going longer if they're willing to be destructive. That's thematic to WtF.

    --Khanwulf

    PS. This, by the...
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  • We'll be delighted to learn more about DE2 as that's available. Hopefully soon....
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  • I like the idea a product presenting at least three mutually contradictory possible origins for non-wolf based shapeshifters. Ranging from "wolves in X clothing" to "children of other Pangaeans" to "Luna's adopted bastards."

    Oh on that last item, another thought is that if Luna forces the change on a non-wolf blooded then she has to get the spirit part from somewhere and might just hoover up some other spirit to form the "base". So you get a half-human with an X spirit form welded on, where X is (probably) an animal-type spiritual manifestation....
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  • The Shark Must Devour!

    Seriously, while orcas are a best fit, sharks are pretty darn close to wolves of the sea. They don't hunt in packs, however, only incidentally during a rage....

    --

    A side note, on a topic that may or may not have occurred to you yet:

    Wolf-blooded. If you attempt to map the changing breeds exactly you'll end up with all manner of X-blooded out there, waiting for Luna to provoke them into becoming were-sharks or whatever. This gets... strange, fast.

    My mental solution for were-cats was the Cat Gift Cat-Scratch...
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  • wyrdhamster is correct in that my suggestion is to start with the mantra--the core philosophical driver of the breed's activity, and build out from there. I also caution to select first the breed(s) that you need, and not attempt to "boil the ocean" and come up with were-versions of everything.

    Why?

    First, the temptation is to make creatures exclusive, however in nature there is tremendous overlap because everyone shares the same physical rules and so certain ways of hunting (food), hiding (safety) and attracting mates will naturally be repeated. This is one...
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  • Fire up your radio and it's just as likely to put you in contact with Amelia Earhart slightly off-track to Howland Island....
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  • That sounds like an interesting Chronicles of Darkness minor splat book. Or major, if you like, but focused on Central and South America geographically.

    It sounds as well as if your approach would deviate on purpose considerably from the alignment of hybrid spirit/human creatures that WtF uses. That's fine, and could exist well alongside any other effort. What I'm really interested in, however, is how to 'fix" the best concepts from Change Breeds 1e--a book with significant flaws--and port them to 2e, a quite different version of the game.

    Ultimately we want to be...
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    Last edited by Khanwulf; 01-08-2019, 03:43 PM.

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  • Thank you and yes, it's an excellent addition to the discussion. The point flows: determine to what extent the design intent of the target creature maps onto wolves, and then leverage as much of their structure as (in?)humanly possible.

    Also, thank you for dredging up my Illithid nightmares. Sigh.

    But yes: if it makes sense for the presentation of a given "minor" shapeshifting splat to ditch part of the structure or toolkit wolves enjoy, then do it. I think only when adding new mechanics should one become very, very careful to justify them thematically. ...
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  • You're going to make me work, Wyrd. Ok:

    * Dusk: (Elodoth) - Honor
    * Night: (Irraka) - Cunning
    * Dawn: (Rahu) - Purity
    * Day: (Ithaeur) - Wisdom

    You could also drop Rahu/Purity and use Day:Cahalith/Glory instead, shifting things around.

    There's a temptation to make the tribes--other breeds of a given creature--into more significant supernatural items than WtF does for the tribes. This temptation should be resisted, as otherwise you'd need to create new tribes. Instead, assign the tribes the philosophical outlooks of the breed they use. ...
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  • Bolded for emphasis. This is exactly the point. My desire is that there be changing breeds (especially cat types). My desire is also not to rewrite WtF around them. How can this circle be squared? By hooking them onto the werewolf points as closely as possible.

    Doing so might require some thought about Gifts beyond the obvious "no auto access to wolf gifts", but I haven't attempted an edit. If the ideas were that far along, I'd not be posting and would instead be releasing something to the STV. But there are specific reasons for why the developers chose to craft WtF 2e...
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  • Is basing Auspice on lunar phase any less strange? It ties into the legends of the moon phases influencing behavior, sure, but assigns massively more influence to them.

    So since we're making circumstances of birth important to how a character interacts with the spirit world (Auspice ties to Renown and Renown is how the spirit world relates to shapeshifters), the logic of using time of day goes back to exactly your point: (house)cats and their bigger cousins, tigers, (and jaguars) are active in twilight. However, lions are active during day and night, and housecats in particular will...
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  • Mostly because if you have children of Wolf, then they're going to be predators. Note that this flows from a theory that could make doing 2e changing breeds easier, which is that they are "all wolves" for integration into the rules and lore.

    If you want to detail out how your horse pangaean has half-material/half-spirit offspring with Luna, go for it. My point is simply "do the least work needed for the concept". Keep in mind however that in Pangaea and the Hisil everything is carnivorous and cannibalistic. Everything.

    wyrdhamster as well...
    ...
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  • Honestly it's not been done in any kind of complete fashion for 2e. There are some limited stabs at it that are specific to reimagining the ideas, and you can read through the thread for that.

    While I'd love to do a full revision, I've just not had the time. Here, however, are some salient points that you could use yourself to kitbash something for a player.

    1. Any non-wolf shapeshifter should be a hunting predator, and thus can be considered to be a kind of bastard child of Mother Wolf--as for pangaeans the idea of gender and form is ... a individualistic matter. So...
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  • So... might I characterize it as a set of building blocks from which one could successfully define a set of path "rituals" to accomplish desired game effects? Your comment about treating path results as mini-rituals is actually very interesting.

    This is all just a point that I've been pondering for years, and haven't really seen a 2e solution to yet. So: intriguing. (And yes, a direct port of all WoD paths is an exceptionally unwise thing to do as they would flat-out break the setting rules. Lure of Flames for example.)

    --Khanwulf...
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  • Sounds like mission accomplished!



    You or anyone is welcome to it. It was your seed after all: the idea of the Maylay "Forest of Unborn Toys".

    And yeah, it would have to exist in a kind of nightmare. One way or another.

    And if it doesn't have one? It'll create one. So can be carried back to the land of the living. A gravid subconscious.

    --Khanwulf...
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  • Having not looked at it yet, would you comment on how portable it might be to an effort for representing a proper VtR-ing of Tremere blood sorcery paths?

    Thanks
    --Khanwulf
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  • Getting cold feet?

    The owl with the luminous eyes flits silently ahead, some part turning to watch. To keep her in silent judging view. She wanders under the forest of blasted branches, from each hangs a decapitated doll's head. Their eye flicking open at the sound of her approach through the rustle of dried, paisley fabric scraps on the forest floor. So many discarded leaves. So many discarded toys. Never needed. Never loved. The little heads rotating to follow by a scarlet thread tangled amidst the hair. Tiny, plastic mouths pursed eternally to suckle.

    She must not...
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    Last edited by Khanwulf; 01-05-2019, 01:11 AM. Reason: Edited for additional content.

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  • The Strix hate Humanity. Hate that vampires hold onto it, and hate them with a kind of personal force for doing so. A Strix who is "being nice" to a vamp is one that has found a leverage point at which it intends to pry against the Kindred. (Or it's bored and its Vice is triggered. That works, too.)

    Perhaps the "surreal shit" might be associated with the characters' number and tiers of Humanity, and the associated offenses that trigger checks against them?...
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  • That would entirely depend on whom you ask.

    I mean that quite literally.

    ---

    My intent for ... a few years now... has been to come to a plausible re-visioning of at least the Bastet from Changing Breeds. For 2e. To do that you need a mythology or several, vague enough that it can be interpreted as needed from different perspectives. So if you ask a Lion-Clan shape-changer they tell you all about how great their dude is/was. If you ask wolves they'll say these guys smell like weird wolves who got too close to cats or lions or whatnot, and muse about hunting...
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  • Ok, so out-of-the-box Firstborn, starting with:

    King Lion: an ancient Pangaean contemporary with Father Wolf, it is said that he rarely hunted himself but instead was brought trophies by his pride and court of other Pangaeans. Lion Clan storytellers will say a lot more--out of earshot of wolves--about how King Lion was given both his mane and rulership over all that the sun looked upon after his great roar terrified a massive spirit called Theia into coughing up the half-devoured sun. They also say Wolf was given her job by King Lion, to patrol the boundaries of His domain and keep...
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    Last edited by Khanwulf; 01-03-2019, 04:43 PM.

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Khanwulf
Khanwulf
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