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  • Monalfie
    replied to Werewolf Killing Machine
    Well it was premised as someone who 'mows down werewolves' and could feature as a villain in a werewolf game. So I'd think it would ideally be someone with a lot of staying power....
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  • Thinking about this more, I'm actually not sure how much action or 'real adventures' you've been limited on? Just thinking of the games I've been in, they've certainly had a lot of that still packed in despite the Masquerade. This has not really been an issue for me over the years.

    A lot of the enemies we face are usually in the know (other Kindred, Werewolves, Spirits, Hunters, etc.).
    A lot of the locations are 'isolated' in some regard. Either by design (enemy laboratory or base) or chance (dark night club run by a Kindred, a rooftop).
    And even those in semi-public...
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  • Quite. Staying hidden is a key part of VtM in ways it isn't in other game lines.
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  • And at that point there's no reason to get the books. If the books aren't providing what is useful to craft a story for someone then they don't serve the purpose they should.

    And my point is that is that I'm just making up large portions of things needed for the story I want to tell (including mechanical stuff) then these books don't serve a purpose for me. And what is the end solution, I have to wait to buy three, four books to get what I want/need?...
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  • The thing is, you can probably argue the game is playable with just one clan. But at a certain point it isn't VtM if you're throwing out large chunks. Especially if those large chunks (like the Sabbat, Tzimisce, Setites, Lasombra, etc.) are important to you or the games you run.

    I mean, do you think you'd feel the same if V5 was just released with three clans? Sure, it'd technically be playable....
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  • Quantity doesn't necessarily equal quality (in terms of writing). In the same way in this discussion, though, I don't think lack of quantity necessarily equates to quality either. You can have a good or bad book either way. That said, we all want some options (I think that's a fair statement). I don't think many would be advocating for a one clan one discipline game. I'd say everyone places some value on quantity. So this contention just seems about when you think quantity harms quality or not.

    Perhaps all this is quite obvious. But my issue with the current discussion is just that...
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Werewolf Killing Machine
    The efficient issue I mean (I think I noted this elsewhere) is the inherent risk of going into melee combat. Werewolves typically (from my understanding) travel in packs. If I have to pick between the chance of enemies hitting me or entirely (or at least significantly) removing that risk? That's what I'd go for. While I've contested the end result of Toth's sniper before in another thread, I have to appreciate a lot about it.

    Choosing where and how to fight is just as (if not more) important as the numbers in question.

    Alucard Why even bother trying to drown them? It...
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  • Sure, I don't necessarily disagree with these points. Just that the presentation of the facts was a bit off if we're really trying to assess these things. The current relative difference in spite of content amounts is a very good point. The broader point is fair, but just was taking issue with how it was being given since it seemed like the numbers were being put forth incorrectly.
    The point sounds irrelevant, given how Heavy Arms talks about the release of V20 anyway that they aren't super comparable in some release aspects....
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  • Their point is that one should expect a dated product to be cheaper (typically publications get cheaper as time goes on). So what would be fair would be to compare the hardcopy cost of V20 when released compared to the hardcopy of V5 when released.

    Now, if you're saying V20 hardcopy in Spain was twenty dollars at release, that's pretty surprising....
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Tips for a new player?
    I'll give this a strong second. A trap I fell into before (that can be very easy to have) is trying too hard to fit an archetype or tailoring a character to fit a clan box. Just writing a character you'll enjoy should be the first step and their vampiric nature being a secondary consideration onto that. One of the most fun aspects I've had in a recent game was where we played our characters as mortals first and clans were ended up resolved by some chance/circumstance....
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  • How are your attributes and abilities allocated? Off-hand, I assume you'd want to use your first turn controlling someone with MotM. Then in later turns just use a gun or melee weapon on them. If these abilities are low, though, you could just throw them around instead.

    Edited not to double post, but 11twiggins makes a good point. You can also just levitate yourself and shoot from the air. This would be more ideal if the enemy doesn't have much ranged capability, therein you aren't risking them contesting your control rolls.
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    Last edited by Monalfie; 09-14-2018, 12:35 PM.

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  • Monalfie
    replied to Werewolf Killing Machine
    I feel like this is overthinking the issue. Mostly because this is going to be extremely blood exhaustive (first the cost to hold them, then to summon anything flammable, then to light them on fire). Whereas you could just have pre-conjured (or actually bought/made) a shotgun with silver buckshot (or whatever you preferred gun is). I like the spirit of the idea (because, again, a caster built around not engaging physically is going to almost always be better here), but just a few tweaks.

    Undead rabbit
    Pretty sure he's saying you would cast hold, then cast Lure a later turn....
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Werewolf Killing Machine
    Sure, I noted that (just pointing out the flaw in your objection). Like I said, this build seems conceptually backwards. Obviously he could just say 'I get the fifth dot as well'. But choosing this Berzerking style over just getting other Thaumaturgy paths seems inefficient. Still not sure he'd be 'distracted by spirits' though, per my other objection.

    11twiggins I don't have my book on me, doesn't Clash of Wills note something about Lupines and Obfuscate? Maybe it just says something like dogs, I forget....
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    Last edited by Monalfie; 09-14-2018, 11:00 AM.

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  • Monalfie
    replied to Werewolf Killing Machine
    Are you implying that berzerking makes someone blind? You activate the ability and it allows one to also see the Umbra for a scene as a passive ability. I don't see how possessing eyesight is a complex action here. And nothing about the power gives a need to maintain concentration.

    I thought we were talking about the Berzerker merit, not frenzy. The berserker state sounds like you can differentiate between targets.

    I'm more inclined to say it is a bad idea because there's no reason to engage in a physical contest with a Werewolf, especially as a Thaumaturge, when there...
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    Last edited by Monalfie; 09-14-2018, 10:49 AM.

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  • Monalfie
    replied to Werewolf Killing Machine
    Except you can activate it before going into frenzy. As you noted, I'd assume both sides would have time to prepare. Given this is premised as more of an in-world scenario....
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Werewolf Killing Machine
    Spirit Manipulation allows one to see into the Umbra. Five also lets you manipulate/interact with it, but he only mentioned up to four in his build....
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    Last edited by Monalfie; 09-14-2018, 10:20 AM.

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  • I'd say there's a difference between the claim that 'previous editions were X' and 'previous editions lent themselves to X playstyle'. I don't think I'd call it a lie, but I would call it somewhat of a misrepresentation because it calls into question the design....
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  • Monalfie
    replied to High generation Meths?
    I think his point is that mechanically you can still build a non-canon character stronger than Al Asward, having more Archspheres. That nothing in the system would inherently preclude that. Now I don't know if that's accurate (I'm not well versed in Mage), but I don't know of anything that would prevent it....
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Werewolf Killing Machine
    A Tzimisce Koldun seems effective given the absurd strength given to Koldunism.
    Way of Spirit five lets you sense everything within five miles and use other Paths within that perception.
    From there you can take your pick of Ways or Paths to savage your foe at your leisure. With Path of Wind as a good escape ability and Way of Water (or the ritual Refuge of the Thirsty Grave) to hide. Could probably swap rituals around in general (like Pool of Secrets and Conjure Spirit) to help.

    I imagine there's probably some really good Abyss Mystic build out there. Something like Obtenebration...
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  • Monalfie
    replied to High generation Meths?
    I'd say it somewhat depends on the context, but generally agree. Once ran an entire D&D game that was based around the players trying to kill a recently ascended god.
    Personally, I think the entire 'this is evidence humans are still a threat' is a good point to make. Even if I would have perhaps done is a bit differently than you did (with destroying Alamut)....
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Monalfie
Monalfie
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