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  • That's an interesting question. I would think it would depend on the path. The presentation of morality, as far as I'm aware, for VtM has it being an innate aspect of being a human/sentient creature. That everyone is inherently following Humanity (or a version of Humanity) whether they are aware or not. Point being, I think there might be some instinct (especially on an instinct path) for knowing what you might consider a sin.

    When we're talking about the beast and the metaphysical means to deal with it, these aren't purely mental aspects. The soul or Cainite equivalent of the soul...
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  • I think you could in highly select circumstances. Like, I think anyone on humanity could delude themselves to think they are on a path. But for being on a path thinking you are on another, I really, really don't think so. Getting on a path is pretty hard. Involves (far as I'm aware) a lot of conscious effort to change how you think.
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Fearless Vampire Hunters
    If my college days taught me anything, it is that you can accomplish some impressive things with a funnel and rubber tubing....
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  • Because if the choice is between certain facts and guessing, I think the Bahari would logically go with the safe bet.




    I'd say it is based on the rational of the sin.
    Killing a living or unliving being - Death denies one the chance to transcend.
    More people dying mean more people are denied the chance to transcend. If the goal is the most amount of people transcending, killing more reduces that goal.
    Now, the choice in the situation isn't necessarily killing. But I think it still follows that they would choose the option that allows the maximum...
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  • I think that kind of contemplation would be inherently outside the framework of what a typical Bahari could estimate. This is starting to assume any of them have kids or loved ones. Or which group has more or less. I'm not sure there would be enough information to work with that rationale. Whereas saving more people is immediately verifiable as more people to out there for corruption. Otherwise we'd also have to question the relationships between the individuals, their overall family sizes, number of friends, ages, etc. Even the merits of the specific people, 'that group is all old people and...
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    Last edited by Monalfie; Yesterday, 10:26 AM.

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  • Which was basically my point. If you elevate the Nagaraja to a full clan, you make the Giovanni concept a lot worse. Since they are based around being the necromancy clan as it stands. Which is fine if that's what someone wants to do, just something to be aware of in this concept....
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  • I think the biggest pause for me isn't stealing from the Tremere or Cappadocians, but probably the Giovanni most of all. I think I mentioned it in the other thread. Necromancy as the Giovanni's thing seems fairly vital, no?
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Obfuscate flaws
    What? That doesn't follow. Just because Auspex is about multiple senses doesn't implicitly mean Obfuscate is. Auspex does a lot of things besides deal with Obfuscate in general. They aren't meant to be 1 to 1 parallels or something....
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    Last edited by Monalfie; 03-28-2017, 02:21 PM.

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  • Monalfie
    replied to Fearless Vampire Hunters
    I mean, are they blood bound or not?

    And really, if they can freely leave/aren't bound, the entire concept of drinking all that animal blood seems quite strange. Animal blood just sucks. If they are in control, it seems easy enough to flub the schedule to get those blood bonds anyway. It seems strange to keep up appearances when they could just create this scheme themselves. Though, it comes off even stranger if they are in on it since this entire thing is a fairly big Masquerade breach, which would interest other Sects to quash even more. These just seem more like ghouled servants...
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    Last edited by Monalfie; 03-28-2017, 08:55 AM.

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  • Seems fine to me. As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't think the Ravnos really add much to the metaplot in general. And while I have no issue with them, there isn't necessarily a reason to keep them around. The Nagaraja always actually had that Indian vibe to me (probably just from exposure) compared to how they tried to depict the more eastern Ravnos.
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Fearless Vampire Hunters
    I think you really missed my point.

    Because it seems like every thread I read about an evil group Aya has to go on and on about the strange 'rapey' deviancy the NPCs are undertaking. My objection isn't 'hey, we shouldn't have pseudo-sexual undertones in the game.' I don't want to rant, since I'm not here to badmouth Aya. But I'd be lying if I didn't notice certain comments from him.

    They escape the blood bond, as he mentioned. For the record, it got weird for me when those captured are needlessly all female and the term 'milked' was used. I would have had a very similar...
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    Last edited by Monalfie; 03-27-2017, 02:30 PM.

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  • Monalfie
    replied to Obfuscate flaws
    Yes, there is a difference. It feels like you are trying to strawman here, idk. You can smell bad and not be an idiot. I think it is likely the Nosferatu both smell (because of where they live) and typically don't care (because they are ugly outcasts who live in trashy places). I even made note they probably shower up if they really needed to. But I think the premise 'Nosferatu don't stink' is false. I think you are going to inherently start collecting a smell living in those kind of areas. Not just from sewage, but clothes are gonna start getting moldy in those dank conditions. Or the likely...
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    Last edited by Monalfie; 03-27-2017, 01:23 PM.

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  • Monalfie
    replied to Obfuscate flaws
    The book outright tells us some of them live in sewers, run down tenements, and disused allies. You don't literally have to roll in shit to start smelling bad. I don't think it is in any way an unfair thought that a fair number living on the streets are probably going to start building up an odor on that basis alone....
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Ravnos Controversy
    Yeah, I don't think clan Ravnos plays a very important part in the plot besides Week of Nightmares. At least as far as I'm aware. It can be as simple as saying they aren't a thing and, if you really need to deal with Week of Nightmares, can pin that on another clan. I personally don't think their current iteration is much of an issue and the players in the game I'm in haven't had issue with the Ravnos characters there. But everyone will vary on that, especially given the history of the writing and how far you dig into it.
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Obfuscate flaws
    As written, yeah, doesn't cover smell from my view. Same going for touch. But I think it would be a fair house-rule to use if anyone was of a mind to. Or go by the idea that Nosferatu who need to go somewhere where smell is an issue, they might just shower up first. I don't think moving forward with either idea would cause issues.
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    How does the game benefit from having rigid rules in the first place?...
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  • Yeah, but a necromancer is going to have a significantly easier time of contacting a Wraith than a Setite sorcerer, no?...
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  • I think that makes sense. But it seems like you could effectively raise people from the dead using this method if you dispose of or trap the prior inhabitants soul out there, no?
    Remove soul.
    Place ghost or other soul inside.
    Destroy or trap displaced soul.

    I mean, I think it would hurt the Soul Stealing power a lot if there wasn't some utility like this. But the lack of clarification seems to put it up in the air. Different question, could you theoretically switch the bodies of two people with this? And, if so, would the souls then remain in the new bodies?...
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Nagaraja Thread
    V20 even starts with: As a result of their hideous appetites, the Nagaraja have been hunted to near extinction in the modern nights by political enemies and the ghosts upon
    whom they prey....
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  • Monalfie
    replied to Nagaraja Thread
    I mean, as far as weaknesses go, it seems fine. Getting humans to eat is a difficulty in and of itself. Then you have to be preserving it. But more importantly, you have to have access to the body. I think a good comparison might be the Tzimisce home soil weakness. It isn't as though the Nagaraja or Tzimisce can easily just walk around with bags of flesh or dirt. If you are a single Cainite who is getting home nightly to your body fridge, it isn't that much of an issue. But most of the games I've been in, getting to your haven nightly isn't always a given. Either because you have to travel nearby,...
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Monalfie
Monalfie
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