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[Shawarbaaz]

There's a hard and fast mechanic: Does it contribute to the story if the character is Embraced successfully? If your answer is yes, there you go.

[Shawarbaaz]

So it's no longer a thing as of Requiem 2e?...

[Shawarbaaz]

Why do we have to treat the World of Darkness like it has some singular cosmology? The afterlife in Wraith: The Oblivion might not be the same afterlife in Vampire: The Masquerade. In fact I remember from the Gehenna books where Lucita and Anatole found peace and respite in the afterlife after facing final death....

[Shawarbaaz]

You're not cheating death. You are death. A cancer on the face of the earth. It's not immortality by any stretch, just living on stolen time like an undead parasite....

[Shawarbaaz]

First of all, you would be undead, not "immortal". Second of all diablerie isn't just killing, it's the direct annihilation of a soul, it's fundamentally wrong, and even the most depraved Kindred are tortured by the Diablerie they commit for years, let alone a serial diablerist. They slowly become insane and maybe even addicted to it, to the point where they are put down like mad dogs or becoming wights from indulging their vice....

[Shawarbaaz]

Diablerie also takes away part of your sanity from the first time....

[Shawarbaaz]

"RAW this would suggest Thin-Bloods could hunt each other for disciplines."

Funny you should say that. No one has the mental fortitude and depravity enough to commit multiple diableries for disciplines, lest of all Thin-Bloods who are closest to their Humanity. I can see a character like this being an antagonist maybe, but not a trend or a phenomena among Thin-Bloods, not by a long shot.

[Shawarbaaz]

Good job Drac.

[Shawarbaaz]

I think it differs from city to city. In my Paris game the Toreador Thinblood PC was branded with an intricate rose tattoo on the back of her neck that seems to shimmer and can never quite be hidden. Part of the reason why she hasn't been given something more crude is because she's directly descended from Villon and such get some special treatment.

I imagine most Thinbloods would be branded by Tremere, something vaguely Thaumaturgical so it would be permanent and unconcealable. You don't really need an official ritual to make something like that.

[Shawarbaaz]

That's good to hear. Though we could use more mind whammy powers like Dominate and Presence to help in dialogue (with mortals). And maybe the ability to specialize in one type of play-style over the other.

I'll wait for more information and see....

[Shawarbaaz]

Anyway to go back to the topic of Bloodlines 2, to me the gameplay seems heavily geared toward combat and this is a little worrying, like I can't think of any non-combat application for the Thinblood disciplines. All I'm saying is that if I want to play a Toreador socialite with a gun in her purse that she only uses as a last resort I should be able to, ya know? What do you guys think about this?

I doubt it would even have the Social/Mental/Physical spread of the first game. I find it odd because the first game was criticized for the lack of end game social options, and if they're...

[Shawarbaaz]

You know what, I actually agree with everything you said. When power has consequences it stops being a power fantasy. Well said.

I guess we reached a nice conclusion for this argument....

[Shawarbaaz]

It's a little frivolous, but no more frivolous than setting a game in Vatican City or Jerusalem or another another holy city. It's not a bad concept honestly, and I say this as an ex Muslim.

[Shawarbaaz]

V5 is about as deep as a puddle but the Haight era was good apparently. I admit V5 is flawed, but it's not as flawed as that logic....

[Shawarbaaz]

What is the most enjoyable form? Are you going to play adventure, travel around the world for artifacts? Okay, that’s fine. Are you going to play mercenaries hunting for the rarest blood? That’s fine too. How about flipping tables and playing Diablerie campaigns? Okay, why not. How about the Nights of Prophecies stories? Why not. Should I mention Factor Chaos? What about Samuel Haig-

Well I personally think Vampire is not the game for this, because I consider Vampire to be about politics, close up, local horror, politics, social backstabbing, politics, humiliation, thirst, politics,...

[Shawarbaaz]

That's an unfair way to look at it, and somehow fuels the player prejudice against Thinbloods as a playable concept. For one thing Thinbloods don't suffer the Beast as much as other clans which is a blessing that no doubt many Elders envy, for another, they can walk in the sun, which is something else full vampires covet.

From an OOC perspective I want to see a Thinblood story, a classic underdog story about night to night survival without over the top action and cool powers. Just you, the hunger, your vicious Kindred and the long night.

I don't want to perpetuate the...

[Shawarbaaz]

Beast: The Primord- Oh, well I don't know, maybe Changing Breeds? But it's more New World of Darkness than Chronicles of Darkness.

[Shawarbaaz]

What is the Masquerade? It has always tried to be a game of personal and political horror, yet there was a dissonance with the kind of themes it wanted to present and the player base it actually attracted. As time went on it lost its focus especially with V20, with more disciplines than I can count and so many bloodlines and factions and open secrets that it's mind boggling to think that the game can be taken seriously as a horror game.

The way I see it V5 wants to take 20 steps back and avoid all the holes VTM has walked into since it's inception. It's a remake of sorts, one I w...

[Shawarbaaz]

All the criticism I've seen so far about V5 is "Where are my powers?", "Why can't I play a 9th Generation Elder from the get go?", "Why can't I play a Path of Enlightenment?", and "Why is Humanity so strict?"

The only valid criticism I've seen so far concern the art and the controversies, which I agree should be addressed. The rest is all old guards hating on the new (which is ironic because V5 isn't new at all, but more of a remake of 1st edition)

[Shawarbaaz]

Pretty awful on every level? Because it's not a self-aggrandizing power fantasy where your character is little more than a walking repository of cool powers? Because it dared to live up to the original promise of Masquerade?

And your tone implies that Requiem is also an awful game, which is patently untrue. If anything both V5 and Requiem are miles more mature in inteperation than all the previous edition of Masquerade that came before 1e....