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  • Humanity is a measure of "How Human you act and pass as". Performing actions that reinforce that you are not human will cause degeneration of Humanity. Some of those actions of course relate to performing things which Humanity at large consider inhuman, and more than likely are considered immoral by society at large. Killing is a "sin" or "breaking point" because only monsters are OK with committing such an act without compassion.

    Thus Humanity is not a morality system, but a measure of how close to the Beast you are. However, it helps to follow human...
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  • I'm going to to be really honest here. To me, and I am sure to other people, VtM is a lot more than just Beckett, Lucita etc. I honestly could give a damn about these characters. I want to know about the final nights in my own game, with my players, and their characters. Signature characters almost always don't adhere to the game rules in some way.

    As to touchstones, other examples are causes, like some sort of revolutionary group, so I can't see why touchstones can't be rituals and items that embody for them philosophies that are the corner stones of their Path.

    And...
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  • Dr Ether
    replied to My thoughts on V5
    Rusted Veins was pretty much an excuse to test combat.

    The Jyhad is still a thing in V5, but the core game, the main entry experience, is being more tightly focused on the streets, with books like Camarilla and Sabbat looking at what these elite factions are now doing. It's not these are gone, they are just not the core game experience being sold to new players.
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  • VtR2e does have other vampires as touchstones, and ghouls, and more. There is an entire chapter on the topic. The problem for elders is these touchstones are not as good as living humans who are directly tied to their mortal life.

    Other examples from the book and similar

    The forest the vampire once called home as a mortal.
    Homeless children in the city and street they once called home as a child in need.
    A charity that is trying to protect the cinema that once showed a premier of film that as a mortal was their first film they ever directed.

    Some...
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    Last edited by Dr Ether; 06-18-2018, 09:47 PM.

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  • Dr Ether
    replied to My thoughts on V5
    You do realise V5 has been tested at WOD Berlin, plus open testing of the of both alphas with surveys? Is that not enough? The point of the alphas were to really push the Hunger mechanics and combat.

    I for one like the change in the setting, the retraction of the Camarilla and the Sabbat off on a Jyhad war, as it creates power vacuums that STs can use for stories that focus on younger vampires who ca have a sense of being able to take charge.

    As for artwork, what we have is a combination of photographic artwork (not like the MET stuff but more fashion magazine style with...
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  • VtR2e Thousand Years of Night introduces simulacra touchstones that are memories of their touchstones that have since left the earth, and means to keep those memories alive. They can also form new bonds with other humans who they meet and pay an interest in. Plus there are also lots of other ways they can interact with humans to create touchstones (Binding themselves to a bloodline, discovering an apparent reincarnation of someone they cared about etc).
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  • Dr Ether
    replied to My thoughts on V5
    I honestly don't feel you can 100% satisfy all parties in this.

    I don't think you can do a new edition that is modern and yet placate all the old guard. And I think trying to do that would lead to a edition that would be dead on arrival as the old guard would still go "Why should I buy this?", before we get the quality of the game.

    Which is why they have taken the route of a modern system, and following it setting books that are still functional for people who prefer older system X.

    And as I have said before, the success of the edition should not...
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  • Dr Ether
    replied to My thoughts on V5
    You know comparing the number of books produced, especially in more recent years, for CofD and WoD is a fallacy because the move to PoD means not being at the mercy of the supplement treadmill.

    In order to get stockists to sell your stuff, they want new stuff. Thus the ever need to produce new books. Often at a rate that is at a cost to the quality of the content in those books.

    Since PoD, the need to produce new books at a rollercoaster rate, and the need to reproduce content in new books, is diminished. This is why we don't have 2e versions of the Covenant books. Or...
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  • I waived it when the context of rolls were for research in scenes that would have preceded main events of the scenario I was running. It made no sense for what were essentially "flashback" rolls to increase Hunger in the present.

    I can also say that the rules for Hunger from what I saw in running the Beta are such that Messy Critical were much less frequent. With Hunger and powers there is also some cool stuff with regard to that which also means it doesn't feel it intrudes too often. But that is all NDA until the Beta is out. I just want to reassure you that from pre-alpha,...
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  • Dr Ether
    replied to My thoughts on V5
    And that is fine, but also means you are not the target market - you have all the books you want for your game. There is an entire edition you already own. But old players like me who left the game and want a fresh take on it, and also to grab a new fan base with a product that caters for modern gaming choices, they have to take a risk. If you buy this edition, then that is a bonus. But they easily could have just brought out VtM5 that was just V20 with a few updates, people would have cried "Why should I buy this?", and it would have been an edition new players would have looked at...
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  • Dr Ether
    replied to My thoughts on V5
    The fact of the matter is GW killed of Warhammer, and many older players, who were disillusioned with the game and setting returned as the new setting took bigger risks. The only people to whine were the competitive scene, who only buy stuff unpainted, second hand. Plus it drew in new players.

    And I cry bullshit on rpgs needing experienced STs to run them. RPGs need to be written and constructed in a manner that it makes is accessible for people to run then, old or new. A good rpg is also written that frames a good default game experience that an ST delivers. Saying rpgs need experienced...
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  • Dr Ether
    replied to My thoughts on V5
    We've also seen what it did for GW and killing off Warhammer, and creating a new version that actually now sells more than the old version did for years.

    Risks have to be taken to expand the fanbase, not just catering for the current, who may not buy anything because they have all the books they need already.
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  • Well in VtR (not seen the full Touchstone rules in V5) Touchstones are things that tie you to leading a life that ties you to the world. So that can mean a vampire can create new touchstones, as they care about new things, new goals, new people to their life that help reinforce their humanity. There is no reason why, elder vampires could not establish things that drive them, that in turn prevent them just becoming mindless monsters. If anything I feel the touchstones could in fact be used to recreate the paths, and make more important the things and ideals that a vampire clings to....
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  • Touchstones in VtR can be things other than people. It can be things you care about in general that tie you to the world at large, and to human society.




    I waived it when the context of rolls were for research in scenes that would have preceded main events of the scenario I was running. It made no sense for what were essentially "flashback" rolls to increase Hunger in the present....
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  • For context in the beta demo I ran at UKGE this year, the Hunger mechanic, now in the near final version I got access to, result in only 1 messy critical, and only once a character being driven to a compulsion of some form, and a final frenzy in a fight in the climax of the scenario. It hardly ever interrupted the game, and only ever enhanced scenes. Note I did hand wave some rolls and ignore them for the players, as Hunger made no sense in calm situations without duress....
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  • Looking at it, I can see the Sabbat, being a religious cult, developing rites and rituals that will for a form of Touchstones, that so long as you follow them, will also retain your Humanity, but more as a means to be a better hunter of humans, then to be human. At least that is what I would do....
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  • See, the entire issue I have with CWoD Humanity system is it frames "how human you act", with "how good are your morals", and that the degeneration of Humanity is coupled with the gaining of derangements.

    Comparatively CofD Integrity system is about how well you cope with things that shock your world view. And Humanity layers onto that, how human you appear to be. With touchstones being key features to the latter.

    So I prefer the newer take, as it means morals are not tied to how human you pass. Because plenty of humans are worse morally than a good...
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  • Trust me when I say compared to the two Alpha versions, Hunger is much more refined....
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  • I'll admit the first alpha test was not something that made me confident about V5, but the subsequent alpha, and more importantly the beta demo material I have been allowed to see make me much more happy with the system and the I feel the direction of the setting.

    We talk a bit about the beta on the latest DDR episode.
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  • Dr Ether
    replied to Darker Days Radio
    Darkling #48 Onyx Path at UKGE 2018

    June 4, 2018
    Chris speaks to Matt McElroy of Onyx Path publishing to talk about UKGE, and all the products and games that are coming out, Kickstarters, and future events that OPP want to attend.
    Apologies for the popping in the audio - lost the windshield for the mic, and no press area this year, so I was not sure how close to the mic I needed to be....
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Dr Ether
Dr Ether
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Last Activity: 06-19-2018, 08:22 PM
Joined: 11-01-2013
Location: Sheffield, UK
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