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  • It's not like the vampire needs to breathe - just stick a hose down the throat and top it with a funnel....
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  • You can keep any vampire as a vitae factory just by staking them.
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  • Not necessarily. We are talking about artificial morality paths here. Even in real life morality systems this isn't always true - benevolent world exploder is the prime example for negative utlitarianism....
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  • I posit that the number of people dying doesn't matter. Humanity is explicit that killing more people is worse than killing fewer people. Path of Lilith only has one sin - killing someone. I disagree that this extrapolates into "killing ten people is worse than killing one person".
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  • Is it though? When I look at Path of Lilith, I see a group of abuse victims who got power and are now gleefuly victimizing everyone else. It has a pretty window dressing, but nethertheless the core of the path is "I suffered so everyone must suffer as I did"....
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  • Sometimes you have to work with incomplete information and guess. Such is life. I don't see how that contributes to the discussion....
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  • That doesn't really contradict anything I said. Yes, your abuse should not include anyone dying.
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  • Kammerer
    replied to Ravnos Controversy
    Is his character named Smoking Fang or something? Because you can play characters of different ethnicity from yours - that's not by itself wrong....
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  • Allow me to quote "following the path" again.

    As far as Bahari are concerned, any pain makes people stronger and more enlightenier. Pain in itself is already a lesson....
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  • Gloat to what purpose you ask? Pain is the purpose. Path of Lilith really is the Path fo the Evil Mustache. Look at level 2 sin: "Failing to dispense pain and anguish". Look at "following the path": "To visit pain and even death is the greatest gift that can be given, for through these trials the individual comes to understand herself." When a Bahari can rub salt in the wound, Bahari should rub salt in the wound - to do otherwise is morally wrong.

    Not making a choice is still a choice. Bailing out means killing x+1.
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  • I would say that within the moral framework of path of lilith there is no right choice to the Trolley Problem. Unlike, say, Utilitarianism, path of lilith does not operate with groups. Death of one person is as bad as the deaths of multiple people. Thus both choices in the trolley problem are equally bad.

    I can also make a case for the larger body count. While in both cases death occurs and causes level 4 violation, death of x+1 people leaves more orphans than death of x people, meaning there is more pain and anguish. So I believe the right choice for the follower of Path of Lilith...
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    Last edited by Kammerer; Today, 08:56 AM.

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  • Kammerer
    replied to Ravnos Controversy
    Nosferatu and Malkavians are already rogues by virtue having obfuscate in-clan. Gangrel are thematically rogues and nomads, though they are not actually mechanically good for anything.

    I also question the rest of your analysis. Salubri are "clerics"? What makes them clerics? Obeah 1 is worse at making you a doctor than Vitreous 1, and also can be replaced by a medicine check 99% of the time. Obeah 2 doesn't work on vampires so its real use is to one-shot werewolves. Obeah 3 is kinda useful if you take aggravated damage a lot, but otherwise vampires just heal with blood....
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  • Kammerer
    replied to Ravnos Controversy
    The problem with Ravnos is that there is no real reason for them to exist. They don't fill any niches which are worth filling. "Ethnic" vampires make absolutely no sense because all vampire clans supposedly originate from ancient prehistoric times when aryans were just becoming the hip new kids on the block. Romani doubly make no sense because they are from Common Era. Ravnos as an "Indian clan" still make no sense any more than an "American clan" or "French clan" makes sense. Ravnos power of illusion is thematically a Brujah power, because Brujah are the...
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  • If this was an attempt to be clever, then you probably should have picked something that doesn't have an actual definition in the corebook....
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  • Eh... On the one hand, the only reason Giovanni exist is because someone needed to be a necromancer in the game. On the other hand, Giovanni were the most half-assed implementation of this idea that could ever exist. Okay, Nagaraja were worse, but they came later. The reason Giovanni are bad is that they are an independent, highly insular clan. If you ever want to be a Giovanni in any game you need to invent a special excuse that explains why you live in Camarilla/Sabbat city, why your head is not on the pike, and why you get any degree of freedom from your sorcerous overlord at all. Ideally,...
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    Last edited by Kammerer; Yesterday, 01:15 PM.

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  • I feel like the distinction between a clan and a bloodlines is effectively meaningless at this point. Especially with the increasing metaplot focus in V20 on fringe groups like Harbingers of Skulls.
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  • Kammerer
    replied to Using Kuei-jin
    Can we like, not have race war in my RPG about vampires?...
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  • Kammerer
    replied to Fearless Vampire Hunters
    That's kind of a thing with all conspiracies and specialized societies in general, isn't it? The support network needed is generally larger than the number of core specialists. Like how remote oil operations or fishing cities have a number of fishermen/drillers that is smaller than the number of store owners, bartenders, wives and medics who are there to keep them sane. Even with the vampire conspiracy, the number of ghouls, blood dolls, enslaved ghosts, accountants, lawyers and cultists is probably at least twice as large as the number of actual vampires in the conspiracy. Camarilla may be running...
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  • Kammerer
    replied to Using Kuei-jin
    This doesn't really work since Sabbat also controls a varying number of US cities which may or may not include New York (depending on which Revised book you are reading)....
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  • Kammerer
    replied to Ravnos Controversy
    Say that there is no clan Ravnos and call it a day?...
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Kammerer
Kammerer
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Last Activity: Today, 08:31 PM
Joined: 01-17-2017
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