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  • galivet
    replied to Is someone watching me?
    Well I'm sympathizing (zing) with that reluctance. The game rules made more sense to me and were easier to apply with symmetric sympathy. It also made more sense in the game setting. Sort of a.. "when you stare into the abyss, it stares also into you" idea where you can't be close to something without it also being close to you. Sure, you can look at Sauron through the Palantir, and then he'll read your mind right back. The idea that having a lock of your enemy's hair or whatever is a double-edged sword -- handle with care!

    I think that unless I come across some serious...
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    Last edited by galivet; 04-21-2017, 12:18 PM.

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  • galivet
    replied to Is someone watching me?
    The dude needs to publish a Midrash or something. I'll see if I can find anything with my search-fu. In the meanwhile, I'd say it's at least ambiguous enough that you could run it either way.

    To me it makes more sense for the connection to be symmetric. All of the entries in the sympathy strength chart begin with "The two subjects...", implying parity. I would feel differently if each entry began with "One subject is..." It's probably yet another occasion where multiple devs worked on the book and the left hand didn't know how the right hand was interpreting so...
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  • galivet
    replied to Is someone watching me?
    I would like to know where the idea that sympathetic links can be asymmetric comes from. As I understand the rules, there is one link between two entities, and the link has one value of strength. If this ability for the two "directions" of a normal sympathetic link to have different strengths is a real thing, please point to me where that's covered in the core rules. According to my current understanding, there is no such thing.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk. There's a real possibility that this is a part of the rules I don't understand. But I'm here reading and re-reading...
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  • galivet
    replied to Is someone watching me?
    Sometimes in order to make sense of the rules, you have to remember that they're part of a game, being interpreted by a human, and meant to serve for the telling of a dramatic cooperative story. It helps to filter out some of the nonsense and nitpicking that would detract from actual gameplay.

    Sympathetic connections exist between objects that are close in a metaphysical sense. It's the supernal truth of space. The Lie says that you're close to what you're touching or standing near or see often in your day-to-day. The Supernal says that you're close to what is meaningful to you. But...
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    Last edited by galivet; 04-20-2017, 04:56 PM.

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  • AMS "highlights all phenomena related to the Arcana used." That goes beyond the scope of arcanum purview to include spells. However, spells within an arcanum are limited to effecting things in the purview of that arcanum. Two different rules for two different things.
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  • Some STs rule that PMS only detects when a mage casts a spell, not e.g. when a mage previously had a long-duration buff cast on themselves and they walk into view. This is so that mages can be near their cabalmates without PMS constantly making them get goosebumps or whatever, since most mages walk around with wards or enhancements of some kind. People tune out alarms that never stop ringing.

    If your ST goes that way, then you don't have to worry about veiling long-duration effects anyway. They only ping PMS when they're cast, not throughout their durations.

    Life Veiling...
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  • galivet
    replied to Is someone watching me?
    Use Correspondence (Space) with the +2 Reach option to specify the connection you wish to uncover in general terms. "the being that is observing me". You will find one observer per rank of Potency. This spell is not Withstood.
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  • galivet
    replied to Alternate Legacy Attainments
    Also I suppose weird meta-gaming effects that break fundamental game systems, e.g. legacy attainments that:
    • Modify Wisdom scores
    • Modify Gnosis
    • Pervert the Action economy
    • Modify Arcana scores
    • Change the ranks of Practices
    • Directly grant experience
    Some game systems obviously aren't meant to be subject to magical effects, and you also shouldn't be able to design legacy attainments that do these things.
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  • galivet
    replied to Alternate Legacy Attainments
    The main error in my understanding was from underestimating the number of primary spell factor ranks you have to work with due to misunderstanding the "additional spell factors" rule. If you seek to maximize ranks in primary spell factor, you can can have floor(1.5x - 1) where x is the dots in the relevant arcanum. So for a mage with e.g. Mind 4, that's 5 ranks in primary spell factor. If you design your attainments wisely that's pretty badass.

    Just because an effect isn't extremely flexible doesn't mean that it's not very useful -- specialized tools are powerful. Vampire...
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    Last edited by galivet; 04-19-2017, 11:06 PM.

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  • galivet
    replied to Alternate Legacy Attainments
    I have been enlightened by others on this forum to understand that legacy attainments are generally superior to spells rather than inferior to them ("watered down"). They are less flexible with respect to Reach allocation. If you explain why you believe they're lackluster, you might find that you have an incorrect assumption regarding the rules.

    Generally when you want a legacy attainment that does not correspond to a published spell, you design the effect you want using creative thaumaturgy. You can fit most any effect into that scheme.

    Otherwise, as the rules...
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  • galivet
    replied to Is someone watching me?
    Look into your own future, when you might possess that knowledge. Divination, "Will I learn that someone was spying on me?" A "Yes" answer is perfectly clear. A "no" answer is ambiguous.

    I would also expect a Knowing Matter+Forces spell to be able to detect surveillance devices targeting your character in the spell's range.

    EDIT:

    You can just use Fate magic to prevent surveillance by devices. Use Fate to simulate the effect that vampires enjoy:...
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    Last edited by galivet; 04-18-2017, 10:14 PM.

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  • Cinder, I recommend you read as many of the source books for the diamond orders as you can manage. Each of them provides a perspective on the journey of a mage from pre-Awakening through seniority in an order. For me, those books gave me valuable information on story context, NPCs, and story hooks. Also they're just great reads. The Silver Ladder goes from "Wow these guys are principled leaders" to "Wow these guys are as alien and scary as the old Vampire Antideluvians." It was a trip! I know you read Free Council, but the books for the diamond orders are just better in my...
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  • Haha really? Why would they overload a term like that? Particularly when they have the same effect -- the section on leylines and nodes mentions about how Spirits interact with that resonance in the exact same way the interact with resonance elsewhere in the world ("Finally, Resonance generates Essence that spirits at the roots of the Shadow’s ecology devour"). That's bizarre. I'm just going to stay away from that....
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  • Which arcanum actually has Resonance in its purview?

    The 2E core rules lists Prime as the arcanum for Resonance; Spirit has Essence. But if you just search for "Resonance" in the rules, it's really muddled. Just look at the Active Mage Site arcana-specific effects for one example. It almost seems like when you're wondering which arcanum is appropriate for working with Resonance, it depends on the Practice you intend to use.

    I just want to make a custom legacy that's focused on Resonance, where every attainment does something with Resonance: perceiving it, hiding...
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  • This is great stuff. Thank you for all the replies.
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  • In my suggestion I compared the spell to Craftsman's Eye, which is a Knowing spell. I feel like "look a tool and completely understand it" is analogous to "look at an interpersonal connection and completely understand it."

    As an ST, I would at least allow the deep understanding of the interpersonal connection garnered through the use of this spell to serve as a circumstance bonus to subsequent skill rolls.

    Trying to achieve balance between different arcana is... not something that interests me. You can in the right circumstances do things with Spirit...
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    Last edited by galivet; 04-17-2017, 08:58 AM.

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  • Haha my bad for thinking this was "a simple question"
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  • No controversy that the spell is fine as-is so long as the purpose of the Empathy roll is inline with the spell description. Might want to clarify whether the Empathy roll must be made during the spell's Duration. I think that gaining useful knowledge about something is always a Lasting effect.

    Another option, you could grant the 9-again effect for all Social skill rolls affecting the subject that are influenced by how the subject sees the caster. 8-again with a Reach. I think that understanding the mutual connection could be just as useful to Subterfuge or Socialize or even Animal...
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  • I feel like the direct text is ambiguous, but I'm pleased to follow your interpretation since it's more intuitive and makes for better gameplay. Thank you.
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  • I believe that you could instead have a number of direct questions regarding the relationship answered by the ST equal to Potency. That's both more useful and more inline with other similar powers on record.
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galivet
galivet
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Last Activity: Yesterday, 11:44 PM
Joined: 03-11-2017
Location: Nashvegas
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