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  • Because never again being able to see the sun (even twilight burns and this greatly diminishes your travel options), an inability to have children and outliving everyone you’ve ever loved are pretty sucktacular curses all on their own.

    Throw in a falling into a coma during the hours normal people are out and about, a heightened temper (full belly or not), a phobia of fire (no cookouts or bonfires for you) and being unable to ever again enjoy the taste of ordinary food (or even be able to hold it down) and your eternal so-called life is one almost entirely divorced from anything...
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  • Agreed, I also stole those as part of my rewrite of Generation to be a trade-off system instead of a background point cost in V20. Though I do like the idea of a clan boon (beyond clan discipline cost breaks) as well. I might look into that....
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  • This is a discussion about V5 as written vs. V20 as written, not your house rules to make V5 actually work.

    A Conviction must be a value the PC upholds, not what they think about other people’s values.

    And even if “this is a good person” were a valid conviction, you’d better be sure they’re a freaking saint, because Touchstones must embody those convictions or you take a stain every time they fail to do so. So every selfish act by your Touchstone “good person” is going to hit you with a stain... and the core book outright states the GM should mess with the...
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  • I greatly prefer the V20 mechanics... V5 goes far too abstract for my tastes and veers in places towards trying to be a narrative in real time (which can drag you out of character as you have to resolve aspects not from your character’s viewpoint, but from what is best for the narrative) vs. being played as events experienced by your PCs that can later be recounted in story form.

    I’m also not a fan of the rearranging of disciplines; particularly turning the straight-forward physical disciplines and turning them into grab bags of powers that often leave gaping holes; ex. Potence...
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  • Chris24601
    replied to Revised Ghoul rules
    In some ways, I think V5 does do Ghouls better in the sense that none of the discipline powers a ghoul can select from require rouse checks, natural healing is doubled and the only vitae they need is the “one rouse check” worth each month.

    In terms of adapting that backwards to V20, let me suggest the following; that the monthly ghoul feeding (the part that makes you ageless, able to soak lethal, use disciplines, etc.) works like a vampire spending blood to rise for the night; once consumed that point is burned immediately on sustaining the ghoul, while the “2+ points in digestive...
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  • Chris24601
    replied to [V5] The Sabbat thread
    Maybe you double it if your campaign occurs in a quiet city. By contrast, Chicago already has murder rates higher than places considered actual war zones (283 shot, 45 murders just this March alone... 4 murders and 15 shot just last weekend).

    Sometimes the real worls is dark enough....
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  • George W. Bush was still President and the Wall Street collapse was still in the future when The Sopranos went off the air; 14 years ago.

    Tastes in entertainment change with the times. Generally, people enjoy darker faire during good times (when it’s safe) and more hopeful faire when times are bad. We are not in good times these days and so tastes in entertainment have shifted to match.

    Look at what people are excited about in genre television these days; the Mandalorian (particularly Luke freaking Skywalker showing up), Snyder’s Justice League, Superman & Lois,...
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  • First, blood and wounds there from are special effects.

    Also, parasites taking advantage of and feeding on hapless mortals is NOT cool or a good look in the present days.

    You don’t want protagonists with an end goal of “become a blood instead of sex version of Weinstein, Epstein or [insert crony capitalist/government dirt bag here] only get away with it” as the end goal for your protagonist these days.

    Even the CW couldn’t sell that these days... which is why The Originals (where the vampires were pretty much monsters with protagonist-centered morality...
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  • All of the above is definitely why Mage would be the most practical thing to adapt first. Everyone is human and, generally, a part of contemporary culture so no special wardrobes or prosthetics would be needed.

    As an added bonus, “ranking up” in skill for a new Mage means going from probably fairly vulgar effects on first awakening (so flashy fx for the first episode to draw viewers in) to learning to use coincidental effects (i.e. minor or even no fx needed).

    In other words, cutting your fx costs for later episodes can be portrayed as the protagonists getting BETTER...
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  • Yeah, Mage is probably the least hard setting to explain at the level you’d place the show’s protagonists. Here’s the elevator pitch explaining the Mage setting and how all the future spin-offs fit in three sentences...

    “Magic is real and there are different ways to access it. Because of magic everything that mankind has ever believed in; vampires, werewolves, ghosts, fairies and more; exist in the shadows of the world, each with their own factions and agendas. A conspiracy of techno-mages wants to wipe out all versions of magic not accessed through science to preserve their...
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  • Chris24601
    replied to [5E] The Clan Updates
    Embracing Set as the misunderstood warrior who guarded Ra from the embodiment of darkness also plays into their clan compulsion towards transgression.

    “No, Set was the HERO of the story until the rival kingdom that worshipped Osiris and Horus conquered everyone and rewrote him as the villain. Don’t you want to know the REAL truth instead the easy lies you’ve been sold?”

    That’s the line I see a Setite selling; the hidden truth can be yours if you just follow me. Set can also easily be cast as stand-in for oppressed minorities and outcasts to appeal to them....
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  • Chris24601
    replied to [5E] The Clan Updates
    Once you remember that a good chunk of the older clan weaknesses were psychological; Brujah tempers, Malkavian madness, Ravnos vices, Toreador art fugue or Assamite blood thirst (or the Vizier’s obsessive-compulsive disorder); the concept behind the V5 clan compulsions starts to make more sense. Heck, the Malk Bane in V5 is that the suffer extra penalities when subject to a compulsion.

    Also worth noting is that the Clan Compulsion is just one possible compulsion they could suffer from the Beast; the Random compulsion roll is 1-3 Hunger, 4-5 Dominance, 6-7 Harm, 8-9 Paranoia, 0 Clan....
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  • Chris24601
    replied to [5E] The Clan Updates
    I think there are some really good ideas in the fluff and some of the mechanics. For an example of a mechanic I like; I generally prefer the combo of Banes and Clan Compulsions to a lot of the older weaknesses; many of which could be either crippling or ignored entirely depending on the campaign. I like that moving Quietus into Blood Sorcery means that you can give every caste of the Assamite/Banu Haqim clan the same disciplines rather than having them be separate bloodlines. I think the opening Presence power (+1 to social rolls per rank) is way more useful for social vampires than the V20 rank...
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  • If there’s no free will, then why even bother sharing? Nothing you post will change the decisions made in any way if it’s all predetermined chemical reactions with delusions of sapience.

    If there’s no free will than I have no choice but to hold to my belief in free will.

    That said, the GAME operates on the presumption that free will exists or there would be nothing for the Beast to rage against; no dominate, presence or blood bonds that act to subvert it.

    To the topic at hand... Yeah, most of vampire history is basically vampires spiting God. The Church...
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  • Always remember, if it’s not D&D then EVERY rpg game line is the lowest tier of recognizable outside of rpg circles. Hell, I know non-rper who use “D&D” as synonymous with “rpg” as in “What sort of D&D are you guys playing?”

    In terms of percentage of the general population the difference in numbers between those who’ve heard of VtM vs. Hunter is in the fractions of a percent (remember 3.5 million copies of something wouldn’t even be 1% of the US population or 0.05% of the global population).

    Bloodlines sold less than 100,000 copies. The pilot...
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  • [ETA] This is in reply to CTPhipps last post, I just didn’t feel like including a long quote block when his points were numbered for easy replies... [/ETA]

    You and I completely disagree on something? This is my shocked face... -_-

    1) Let’s be honest here, neither property is setting the world on fire at the moment. Compared to Blade or Dr. Strange they’re both F-tier IPs at best.

    2) The fact that you can mention so many properties that have already done what VtM does and are vastly more present in the public consciousness is all the more reason to NOT...
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    Last edited by Chris24601; 03-17-2021, 03:50 PM.

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  • I’m going to buck the trend a bit and say if you really want to build a World of Darkness shared universe akin to the MCU... don’t START with Vampire; start with Mage.

    Mages, particularly newly Awakened ones are, bare none, the closest to mortals in abilities and perspective to normal humans of any of the main WoD splats. That makes them ideal for an opening viewpoint character and subtle fx requirements to start.

    But also important is that a big part of Mage is that everything man has ever believed in exists in somewhere in the shadows. This preps the stage for the...
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  • In terms of VtM lore, and presuming the recounting in The Book of Nod is accurate, I think a lot depends on how much of the cursing was God and how much was Caine suffering a VERY botched Awakening due to Lilith’s little blood ceremony.

    Because I think there’s very strong evidence from the description that the angelic curses weren’t... the angels were, in fact, manifestations of his own guilt by his Avatar in a botched Seeking (and might have even gone marauder... turning the curses levied in his Seeking into physical manifestations that could be passed to others). Vampirism...
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  • Which way to play True Faith is one of those “toolbox” elements that can shape a campaign. For my own campaigns, I distinguish between Faith (basically super willpower) and True Faith (divine miracle-working).

    The former requires no particular level of Humanity, but is also limited in effect; it can force back vampires and resist their effects. The latter can also perform healing, blessing objects, exorcisms and wards against supernatural evil, but requires high Humanity and associated Virtues be maintained.

    Basically, those with Faith are the fanatics; those with...
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  • Chris24601
    replied to [5E] The Clan Updates
    Frankly, I think they’d have been better served going the opposite direction and developed a unique discipline for each clan akin to how Dementation is a rather specific expression of Dominate with a bit of Auspex thrown in.

    Two-thirds of the work was already done; Assamite (Quietus), Setite (Serpentis), Ravnos (Chimerstry), Lasombra (Obtenebration), Giovanni/Hecata (Necromancy), Tzmisce (Vicissitude), Tremere (Thaumaturgy), Gangrel (Protean), Malkavian (Dementation)... leaving just Brujah, Nosferatu, Toreador and Ventrue.

    So develop, say, a clan-specific Brujah discipline...
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Chris24601
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