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  • This part is the problem. Souls aren't a human's "fundamental self". They have almost no meaning in the context of individual identity for humans, they're easily hot-swappable with almost no side-effects to the individual psyche of the receiving person. So academically speaking it's an incredibly forced metaphor that doesn't actually work.

    I get what you're saying - you're saying that a Demon's "true identity" is their demonic form. That is their "true" self. But that isn't what a soul is on any level.


    It also states that Beasts are...
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    Last edited by Zahaqiel; 04-01-2019, 01:13 AM.

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  • I can grant you Virtue/Vice, although Prometheans could also be said to be in the same boat on those despite also being kinda soulless (Elpis and Torment align to Virtue/Vice reasonably neatly). Creatures that have souls clearly go into psychological collapse when they don't have one, and Demons don't seem to ever risk that issue at all.

    As for the WP from rest issue... a lot of game line cores (and DtD seems to be one) don't actually explicitly state that - although I personally would presume that they do because WP calculations in DtD refer back to the CofD core, and it just seems...
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    Last edited by Zahaqiel; 03-31-2019, 12:52 PM.

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  • So fun story on that.

    Demons have an Exploit called "Raise Dead". It does what it says on the label, but has a caveat: if the person's soul has been destroyed, consumed or has moved on to the next world, no resurrection is possible unless you have a replacement soul. Additionally in both general CofD and Mage, souls are capable of existing independently of a body for a time - they're Twilight entities that are *not* made of ephemera, requiring soul-specific powers to operate on. So it's apparently not entirely unreasonable for post-mortem embraces to still work and create...
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    Last edited by Zahaqiel; 03-31-2019, 08:57 AM.

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  • Demons (of the Descent variety) just outright burn off souls. They don't have them, they just consume/incorporate them. DtD has pretty explicit stuff about how powers that affect souls have nothing to work on when it comes to demons.

    But vampires have to have a soul for Hollow Mekhet to have their fractured souls. Plus there was an explicit discipline in 1e where vampires could remove souls from other vampires. Admittedly that one was a little weird.
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  • No Dave! Spoilers! :P
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  • *casts Deny The Reaper on this thread*

    So the Beast Player's Guide in Chapter 5 kinda heavily implies that Oneiros are souls. It specifically talks about "enter[ing] individuals' personal soul" (p151) and "the realms of a singular person's soul" (p154) in reference to the shifting qualities of an Oneiros as someone changes what they're thinking about and how they only really become stable when someone is in deep meditation. It also refers to Beasts as "natives of the human soul" and heavily implies that individual souls are sort of like roots or branches...
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    Last edited by Zahaqiel; 03-28-2019, 04:02 AM.

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  • Zahaqiel
    replied to Invisible Sun
    I have it (in physical and PDF - I backed the kickstarter) and...

    1. It's not urban fantasy. The starting point is you leaving this world entirely for "the real world" which is a quasi-medieval high-metropolitan surrealist universe of multiple dimensional layers. It's weird and hard to describe.
    2. "The PDF" (I put it in quotes because phrasing it that way is incredibly misleading) mirrors the contents of a knee-high box of books and other materials. It's somewhere in the range of nearly half a gigabyte of content - six or seven main game books, plus card...
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Zahaqiel
Zahaqiel
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Last Activity: 04-10-2019, 05:18 AM
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