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  • I did this in 1e for my site, so you might need to convert it since the blessings are based upon 1e powers - but the source material should work for you. I can try to update it for you if you like it.

    "Knowledge is power. Keep Reading."


    Mystery Dynasty
    Parent Path: Obrimos
    Nickname: Scribes

    The Scribes of Enoch trace their lineage back to the man of the same name. They claim that their Ancestor, Enoch, walked the steps of the Awakened path before the Fall of Atlantis, when magic was at it's greatest and the Awakens were gods. They...
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    Last edited by Jakondite; Today, 06:40 PM.

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  • Jakondite
    replied to Beasts
    Thanks for the responses!

    While I can understand that stating something like using the terms they do is just an abbreviated and easier way of expressing what is actually going on, I also was under the idea that the mage book was catered to the perceptions of the Awakened - that is, it's not written for the perception of an outsider looking in, but rather meant to convey how the Awakened view reality -both fallen and supernal - which makes it all the more confusing when they choose to use terms like "entering" or "visiting" the supernal - if mages themselves...
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  • No, no they certainly are not .

    Though the 1e pledge system would not be as powerful / equalizing in the 2e system anyways - it would really just be 'more merits/bonuses'. The 1e pledges were considered broken (IMO - YMMV) because in the system, merits were more powerful than most supernatural powers (especially combat merits - extra attacks anyone?), and increasing merits tended to take a lot of time. They still take a lot of time now, but with the system now allowing for Sanctity of Merits, and powers now most -certainly- being better than merits, you may find the perks are far...
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  • Jakondite
    replied to Beasts
    *Considers this* You know, I've took this and pretty much internalized it for a while, but this question got me actually looking for the part where it explains that the Supernal Realms are not actually a place, but a - I guess the closest would be a perception?

    The problem with this, is that the Exarches are supposedly said to have forced their way -physically- into the Supernal Realms, and things which are summoned -from- the Supernal Realms. To top it off, the Abyss exists -between- the Supernal and the Fallen Reality - or at least is described as such. The Supernal Entities are...
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  • The thing is that the 1e pledge system was both a piece of changeling society - much like the 2e pledge system - as well as a general buff. Was it mathematically taxing - maybe at first, but it provided something that the 2e system has yet to really do: Incentive to actually -use- it.

    Let's take a look at Sealings. From what I am understanding from your last post - it doesn't matter that the cost is negligible - all that matters is the cost is there, and because there is a cost, there is an incentive to be careful about your words. You don't, after all, want to have to spend a glamour...
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  • *Considers this* In first edition changeling, there was no shortage of characters collecting favors, and while the system did allow you to provide things like resources 3 with a few choice words from the ether, there was also no shortage of people agreeing to do an undisclosed favor in return for a favor now - or bargaining their personal aid, or even knowledge that they themselves had. The system saw use, both for promises to oneself and between individuals. In the test plays I've run using the Sealing system, there hasn't been a pledge yet (besides the typical: Motley, Freehold, Court) - there...
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    Last edited by Jakondite; 05-21-2017, 01:23 AM. Reason: Small Added Section

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  • If you compare 2e pledges to 1e pledges, they have most certainly been what I would call entirely neutered - the ability for a Sealing effect to inflict an undefended contract against a person who misspoke is an effect that was also in 1e. The big difference is, there is no benefit to being a part of such an pledge even if you wanted there to be - and now, you can't trap other changelings or trick your fellows into being careful what they say or commit them to their word. You can only use it against other, non-wyrd based entities - which, if your playing a game with mostly wyrd entities, makes...
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  • I could see this effect as a Patterning effect. The problem, however, is that in order to get a Patterning effect, you need Gnosis 3 in order to have Matter 4, and a combined spell is just as good an option for an effect like this.

    This however seems unnecessary to me. By default, the +1 reach option allows you to shape matter in methods you prefer, and while that may not have true fluid dynamics, Asphalt - and most other things - can be granular. That by itself allows you to manipulate the matter in this way while - not being true fluid dynamics - would certainly -seem- so to outside...
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  • I don't know, I personally enjoyed the mechanics of pledges - but then that was also probably because I used them quite frequently, with every chance that I got as a player. They seemed powerful, but broken implies that they were not a skill that every changeling had. I remember any time a person would make a promise, I would use it - both to bless that person in their pursuit of that promise and to punish them if they lied. Whenever I had a challenge, my character would promise to themselves to overcome it - or abide by the rules of an engagement. It made any changeling that you dealt with very...
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  • Jakondite
    replied to Dissonance Edge Cases
    Fair enough - getting off track. For the sake of ease and everyone's mind, I'm going to try address what I feel is most important to make it easier on both of us; If, however, you feel I should answer something that I choose not to, please let me know



    Obvious magic defines that the spell must be clearly and openly supernatural in effect. My emphasis is based around that the Sleepers cannot perceive the spell at all in this scenario. They do not see "He gained the ability to manipulate electricity" they see "He is manipulating electricity." They don't...
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    Last edited by Jakondite; 05-16-2017, 02:52 PM. Reason: Grammar / Spelling

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  • Jakondite
    replied to Dissonance Edge Cases
    You also get Quiescence without Dissonance when dealing with the Mad. The point here being it does not take an ancient god being to cause that effect - they are two different occurences which do not necessarily need to exist without the other. They are likely to exist together, but are not needed together.



    The entire basis for the Curse is that Sleepers cannot percieve the Truth because they have a shard of the Lie inside of them. Here:



    Emphathis mine. I emphathize this because of these points - the electrokinesis is not a Symbol of the Supernal...
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  • Withstand is calculated by each subject individually, however - I am of the mind that if you use one spell sympathetically on multiple targets, you only need one Yantra in order to use the Sympathetic Range Attainment. The problem, however, is that that sympathetic range attainment should represent all the targets at once; If it does not, you may need more than one yantra, simply because the first does not apply to the entire list of targets....
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  • Jakondite
    replied to Dissonance Edge Cases
    I disagree: You can have Quiescence without Dissonance, namely when dealing with Emanations and natural Verges. It is likely true however that you cannot have Dissonance without Quiescence.



    Fair enough - a mention. But that's an abbreviated substance designed to state that that's still part of the game and what they are - it's not the complete reference work for what will and will not be mentioned in regards to it when it does come up more completely written out. It still doesn't really provide much substance to back the case - I mean, I could argue that if they thought...
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    Last edited by Jakondite; 05-15-2017, 12:48 AM.

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  • Jakondite
    replied to Dissonance Edge Cases
    I understand this. But in this, the question is less about Quiescence and more about Dissonance. Two similar themes, but two different phenomena.



    I see. Problem is - I think in order for them to get any kind of mention, they'd have to mention the ruins of the time before in second edition to begin with. That they were not mentioned does not support or dissuade any discussion. They are literally an element that does not exist to prove a point.



    That seems like a personally reasonable thought. My thoughts, however, are that just because something...
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  • Jakondite
    replied to Sell me on the orders
    I can definately see a feel for that. The Diamond Orders seem knit in such a way that they feel more like interconnections of the same group, but that's likely because they all comprise one sect together, and the Seers/Free Council each comprise of a sect all by themselves.
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  • Jakondite
    replied to Dissonance Edge Cases
    1) Dissonance effects anything Supernal. It does not actually affect the Abyss. Verges are explicitly immune to Dissonance, and in fact prevent spells cast in them from being subject to them (assuming they are natural - Demenses are very much not immune to Dissonance). In this, the question is whether or not Dissonance is a factor to the effects. As far as the ruins of the Time before, I'll be honest - I'm not exactly sure what your bringing to the table in this part of the discussion or what your referencing so it's hard for me to understand the point you are trying to make with that reference....
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  • Jakondite
    replied to Dissonance Edge Cases
    I actually did read that before considering. The thing I keep in mind with that however is that while yes, something supernatural is obviously magical, only supernal things are what actually are affected by dissonance and the Abyss. The curse strikes sleepers after obvious magic, but only "Magic" in the sense of mages. Sleepers don't deal with the curse when seeing obvious fallen magic. By this token, what's obvious must be the magic of the spell itself - not the magic of the individual or being affected by the spell.

    Take the ghost. Say I cast a spell to force a ghost to...
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  • Jakondite
    replied to Dissonance Edge Cases
    Well, Quiescence also -forces- you to forget. With other supernatural events, your mind naturally chooses to forget it or it doesn't. A Sleeper who is aware of the supernatural can still remember the breaking point he experiences - but cannot look at a supernal effect and remember it as it was.

    My thoughts are that the electrokinesis, and anything created from it, are not subject to dissonance - in the same way that a ghost is not suddenly subject to dissonance just because you summoned it there. If they realized that you had called it to you with magic, however, that spell would...
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  • Jakondite
    replied to Dissonance Edge Cases
    To be clear - the Sleepwalker is a Sleepwalker -before- they are given the electrokinesis? If that's the case, no I would not say Dissonance occurs. It's the same if you have a fetish, or if you turn someone into a claimed with magic; The resulting effects and supernatural powers do not cause dissonance - however if someone realized that you - the mage - used magic to grant that? Dissonance would probably kick in.
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  • At this point I kinda want them to sticky this work. Not because its official, but because its so wide encompassing and a resource that anyone could use who was translating mechanics and legacies over.
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Jakondite
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