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  • So, anybody think 4 experience for each endowment is a bit much? Pricing isn't my thing, but I was thinking with the limiters, etc. to act as a balance the price would be lower.
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  • Diggs
    replied to [Open Dev] 2e Revised Endowments
    How many do you think are necessary? For CT, there are 10 arcana and 13(?) practices for a total of 130 spells needed for examples. I think there must be over 200. With 7 conspiracies and 9 keyword pairs, that puts the basic coverage number of examples to 63, around the number of endowments in the first Hunter book. I think each conspiracy having an offensive, defensive and ward endowment exemplified is the minimum, 21 total. Even better, use that as a base to provide CT level variety to bump the number to 35 to 42, but that would be more of a hope. It's subjective. I'm sure some people would...
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  • Diggs
    replied to [Open Dev] 2e Revised Endowments
    I think every Hunter group covered in the book will need something like the Endowment Concept assuming the group has endowments. I don't expect that at this draft, but in the final, people new to the game will need the help. I would also like more detail in the Concepts, or elsewhere, again focused more towards newer players. I would rather have more Concept detail than examples because it isn't hard to find a basic description of all the 1e Endowments. New endowments are always nice. A few endowment examples spread around the Hunter groups can be good. I don't need lots of pages devoted to examples...
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  • Diggs
    replied to [Open Dev] 2e Revised Endowments
    I think location knowledge is superior to sympathetic. Sympathetic requires something connected to the target, ex. a blood sample. The circumstances where it is easier to get a blood sample than find the target's location all include a blood sample already existing. If you had to get a sample from the source then you would need to know the target's location. A situation can be contrived so that any lower value range can be as easy if not easier to achieve than all the higher valued ranges. Making the Endowments useful means creating circumstances to make the best of any limitations, so being able...
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  • I tend to agree, but for a game that is supposed to allow for playing vampires from all sorts of media, where it so happens there are many examples of extremely emotional vampires, the idea of characters defaulting to any kind of deadened emotions didn't fit. It falls into the category of things people will often pretend doesn't exist, so there is no need to support it. I think it was part difficulty and part doesn't fit well known icons that killed the idea in practice....
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  • I have the same issue so I think this Business could use some work. That was my first thought. My second was how it would work out if the Business was related to the Geist. Much more play could be derived from Vengeance when the Sin-eater is largely unaware of the details. The Geist forgot the details and just tends to want to see vengeance dished out.

    I don't expect any open development, so I suspect the details are already worked out.
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  • Rice vampire books were a heavy influence on R1. I think the emotionally dead stuff is about the "Claudia effect". Vampires were unable to feel any new emotions. When someone would normally get angry, a vampire wouldn't feel angry. Instead the vampire would remember how it felt to be angry. It meant child vampires could grow intellectually but would remain emotionally stunted. No mechanics, just a roleplaying suggestion. I believe it might have evolved more into existing as a vampire can mess a person up so that even if one can do well at pretending to be human one still moves away from...
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  • Diggs
    replied to Did i encounter a rules loop?
    Well, the authority that overrules the book would be the developer, not the writer, but I'm not seeing that as important.

    It is important to keep in mind the rules for Down and Dirty Combat were PC-centric in the writing. Both sides roll and the results are given from the perspective of the player. The player can win (success) and roll exceptionally well (exceptional success) or lose which is the same thing as the NPC winning (failure) and when the PC dramatically fails you have the obvious result. Whether someone wants to go with NPC intent or the opposite of PC intent on a dramatic...
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  • Neither of you are actually comparing apples to oranges as the metaphor suggests. You maintain that an apple is an apple which is a distinct fruit from an orange. If it is Masquerade and Requiem then it would be more like a grapefruit to an orange, but it isn't really too important which fruit we use. They are always distinct things and any comparison assumes that. If you buy a bag of oranges and try to compare the oranges to each other, you really hope someone didn't slip in a few apples. Requiem was written in Masquerade terms, if you will, at the beginning. WW was recreating Vampire so Masquerade...
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  • Diggs
    replied to A Walk in the Hedge
    I was not trying to answer your question. I'm not sure enough information was provided to know the answer, but good luck with that. I was trying to make a statement of what the text conveyed to me. I don't think answering "what" is superficial and "why" more deep. I need both answers. Sorry, can't help with your quest. I assume the book will at least answer your question. It should....
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  • I understand confusion. I don't get comparing apples to oranges. Any two things can be compared and contrasted. Going back to the origin of this mess, in this section of the forums saying Werewolves were nerfed means in Forsaken 2e Werewolves were nerfed compared to 1e unless another context is provided. I mean if I had started going on about how wrong this nerfing suggestion is because in D&D werewolves were much weaker in response to the question, people would think I was mental. D&D woofs came before Apocalypse woofs. You might say but they are completely different games. Yeah, so are...
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    Last edited by Diggs; 04-20-2017, 09:08 PM.

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  • Diggs
    replied to A Walk in the Hedge
    Wonderland is what I pictured from the new text. The earlier text seemed darker to me. I have no particular preference, but I have a much harder time explaining how to describe the earlier expression to someone that doesn't get it on their own. If someone says to me "you say the Hedge is like Wonderland but which version?" then I would say all of them, sometimes all at once, savvy? There is advantage in that and the other way had its advantages as well. There is risk to really hone into a narrow laser-like focus. Pros and cons either way....
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  • When D&D comes out with a new edition of the game the approach is to reinvent the game. The ST system did that with the old and new Worlds of Darkness. All the editions after that shift are revisionist in nature. Lots of games create new editions by revising the current edition. A revision can be significant enough to be considered unique.

    Spanish, French, and Italian are all derived from local dialects of Latin. They became separate languages long ago. Italian spoken in Northern Italy is different enough from the Italian spoken in Southern Italy that sometimes Italians can't...
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  • Yes. I walked away under the impression that the Sin Eater group of Bound were the players and had a broad shared philosophy like the Forsaken. The Sin Eaters would tend to believe in acting as intermediaries between mortal and ghost worlds. An archetype would be more of an approach to life than an agenda. This would all be made more obvious than in the 1e. Details might change but it would be more clear why the players are called Sin Eaters....
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  • The impression I had from the very first version was ground zero was what happened when someone was hit with a grenade which had problems when considering thrown grenades are usually going off because of a timer. It seems there was multiple draft ideas to handle the blast areas and some editing must have slipped through the cracks. At this point, I don't know that anyone would remember all the details.

    I think half of the listed blast area as the ground zero area to be reasonable and realistic enough for me.
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  • I might have imagined it but I thought the dev said there is more than one group of Bound and the Sin Eaters are the name for the more Advocate type. I don't remember names given for other Bound.
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  • Since it was brought up, it hasn't gone unnoticed that some (multiple) developers don't like open development for reasons (I will leave that to them and keep my speculation to myself). My advice is not to do what you don't want to do. It seldom comes out as well as it should. Actually, it might even be best to just call it a development blog and indicate a specific offering as open when that is desired. The only guaranteed response to open development is the same as a finished and not quite proofed book, criticism. Obviously, that isn't going to be desirable to everyone. Nobody should be putting...
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  • Sounds like a potentially interesting read, but I doubt it would help. The reasonable response to the situation is confusion. There was a bit of miscommunication. I think 80% finished was the given figure before the team change and when David Hill said he was finished there was no indication at the time that did not mean the book was finished as it usually would be. The announcement came later. I think the book moving around on the blurbs or whatever RichT calls it didn't help clarify anything. I really don't think everyone has fully processed the situation. A significant portion of the book is...
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  • Diggs
    replied to A hypothetical soul question
    This topic has been discussed around before. Demons, Sin Eaters, and Prometheans don't have souls. Many inhuman characters do have souls, inhuman souls. Vampires have vampire souls and while it seems like someone does know what that means it isn't common knowledge. Souls disappear when a human dies and vampires must die before they become vampires. Some vampires are dead long enough we can say there is no chance the human soul remains. When a dead body becomes a vampire, a soul is generated. The rest is a mystery. A person that has their soul removed is still the same person by most standards...
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  • Diggs
    replied to Hacking Untrained Penalties
    You're so far out into left field I don't even know if I can take this on. We are talking about the rules for a game. The rules abstractly create a simulation only to provide a gaming environment. It is invalid to take the position that the rules should simulate reality in order to simulate reality. The rules are always about the game, solely and entirely. Anyone that disagrees and wants to take another position... we are at an en passe.

    We aren't talking about the same level of use. The rules never talked about the same level of use. There are a few levels; automatic failure, automatic...
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