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  • Sure - the same calculations apply. Vampires are pretty good citizens, for RDs. Keep to themselves, mostly feud with one another, have a policy of not causing disturbances in public (most of them, anyway.) Certainly they're not substantially more repugnant than the organized crime types the Syndicate shakes hands with. If uprooting their influence or fighting them is more trouble than it's worth - and it often is, because they're deeply entrenched, insidious, and vindictive - then the smart play is to come to the table and cut a deal.

    Think of it this way: The Union's metaphor for...
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  • Expedience. Pragmatism. Cost analysis. Ideological purity is for the proles. Your question only makes sense if the only reason the Union doesn't do something is because it doesn't want to. But the Union has many, many things it simply cannot do or, more pressingly, cannot afford to do.

    When you're Ms. J, the sample Syndicate character, and you have a task that the Union needs done, and the Union does not have the operatives needed to pull it off, the choices are:
    1.) Don't do it, and let whatever bad thing you want to stop happen, even though you could have prevented it....
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  • Follow-up stuff.

    A: I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.

    Disbursements includes some of the savviest number-crunchers in the universe, no doubt - but by the time they're handling the money, it's the Union's money. They'll do some light investment with it, sure, but by the time it's in Disbursement's hands, it's money that the Union already has plans to spend, and they can't play around with it. Instead of using Entropy to broadcast which markets they ought to invest in, Disbursements has the much more strenuous task of using Entropy to broadcast which Conventions
    ...
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  • Five Eyes
    replied to batini and iran..
    Thoughts: Lost Paths is terrible and you should ignore it.
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  • At this rate I'm going to have to run a Syndicate game. There's not a lot of international finance going on in my Dark Ages game, for obvious reasons.



    Look at Disbursement's methodologies again:
    1.) Review and assign the allocation of Union resources to Union projects.
    2.) Correct and sanction mismanagement of Union resources by Union operations.
    3.) Manage and catalog the flow of Union resources into Syndicate coffers and out of those coffers into Syndic hands.
    4.) Manage and defend Union Quintessential holdings, grow their value where possible,
    ...
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  • Well, I'll do what I can.




    No, I don't think we have to arrive there - if anything, the Syndicate disavows such direct control (The Financiers blurb in RevSynd says specifically that they're hands-off, etc.). A few points:

    1.) Remember that - through outfits such as Plexic - the Syndicate is placing Iterator technology into the hands of Sleeper industries and customers. The nanosecond high-frequency trading algorithms that form such a large block of economic activity, for instance, were born from Iterator (and Difference Engineer) efforts. The high-tech
    ...
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  • Ah, found it.

    Syndicate Revised introduces the notion that Pentex is a merger of Proctor and Premium (pg54) - that's new in the Revised book, and it's either a mistake or a retcon. I'd honestly treat it as an error - it doesn't jibe with the previous material.
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  • "Pentex's founder" is a stretch.

    The Syndicate owned Proctor House ("one of the Syndicate's oldest and most lucrative banking and investment houses") and Proctor House helps Premium Oil/Pentex manage their money and acquire their holdings. When Pentex became a holding company, Proctor merged a number of Syndicate fronts with the tech companies that Pentex was acquiring, creating the SPD. (OrigSyndConv, pg 36.)

    Premium Oil took the name Pentex before SPD was founded, and the SPD doesn't "own" Pentex. The SPD is a collaborative effort of Pentex's...
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  • Not great, but not in the way that most folks are going to comment, I'd wager.

    Consider Czar Vargo as a model of what the pre-split Etherites are like. He's well-meaning, adventurous, courageous, but also small-t-technocratic. When Vargo liberated the world, his ultimatum was not that the people would be free to choose their own way of life - it was that the governments of the world would surrender the reigns of power to Vargo and to "scientific" control. Vargo takes it for granted that those that possess the appropriate philosophical and educational qualifications will...
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  • Why would we think that Magadon is regularly pushing new, cutting-edge therapies to the public? I don't recall anything suggesting that its product lines are particularly innovative - merely that it has a broad presence in a lot of high-demand fields. They don't really need to "innovate" in the hypertech sense when doing just-not-quite-enough is so profitable.

    Magadon's "unusual" chemicals are usually just Wyrmish - that's "extraordinary science" (linear sorcery), so it's neither Enlightened nor Sleeper, really. Even if a Unionist got their hands on a...
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  • "Living the Other Side" seems to produce Attribute totals that are quite high for a "weak" spirit - am I reading it right that a human with 1 in every Attribute will turn into a Rank 1 spirit with more Attribute points than the typical range for Rank 1 ephemerals?

    One thing that came to mind when I read Moinen's momentum spell was you might be able to crib the scale and relationships from the vehicle crash rules (always tidy) and not worry about gradual exchange. (Size-Scale also effectively limits how much oomph the spell can produce, while still letting you use...
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  • I think you've roughly grasped how I'd imagine it, yeah. On specific points:


    A: We should draw a line between ownership and investment. The Union has a huge bankroll of funds from various sources, and the Syndicate re-invests that money in (legitimate and illegitimate) businesses across the globe with Awakened precision and insight, reaping huge profits and skimming whatever spare dollars out of the global economy the system can spare. They have to be careful, though, that this influence doesn't perturb the waters - that sort of hamfisted manipulation distorts the markets
    ...
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  • Posthumanity
    Posthumanity posted a Visitor Message for Five Eyes
    Please check 'Renaissance Order of Reason and Giovanni in Italia' post if you return. I replied at your answer post.
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  • I wouldn't fixate too much on exact numbers, but we can imagine some broad-strokes stuff.

    The Camarilla as a whole hold roughly equivalent wealth to the Union, but no one Clan holds more wealth than the Syndicate. The Ventrue and Giovanni come the closest.
    The Syndicate holds roughly half the resources of the Union, with the other Conventions sharing the remainder.
    The Kindred as a whole hold more a little more wealth than the Union, but not twice as much (the Camarilla are to the Kindred as the Syndicate are to the Union)
    Kindred wealth is also less mobile (it basically
    ...
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  • It really depends on how, hm, "crossover-y" you imagine the setting to be. If you asked me what I'd expect from a heavily integrated setting, I'd imagine something similar to you:


    A: The Giovanni's local investments are so old and fundamental that they're not worth tracking, much less disputing. Their portfolio is so ancient and diverse that anything short of a World War isn't liable to shift their numbers much, and they aren't engaged in much direct new investment or takeover in the heart of their empire - they own (well, share) the Med. banks, they don't care much
    ...
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  • Certainly seems that way!

    But really, 1.) It was the Giovanni's seat of power first, 2.) "I am against my brother, my brother and I are against my cousin, my cousin and I are against the stranger."

    The High Guild are not the ideological hardliners of the Order of Reason, and the Giovanni are perfectly reasonable business partners and allies against the efforts of mortal lords and clergymen that seek to smother mercantile power in the crib. And the Giovanni don't oppose the High Guild's efforts - they advance and finance them, wittingly or no. Even if the High...
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  • The Order of Reason includes many non-Enlightened brethren (and being born to the Giovanni doesn't preclude Awakening, if we want a more radical case), and, while I'd be the first to admit I don't really get along with my family, I'm a little at sea as to why a mortal Giovanni would want to annihilate their parents in order to keep the members of their rotary club happy. The Venetian lodge in Order of Reason is noted as being fairly disinterested in addressing occult threats, after all: To them (and the Giovanni and their subsidiary households), it's just another place to gather influence in ...
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  • The Revised era had some terms that I suspect M20 isn't using, and which may be cropping up on the forums.

    There's stub rules for wonders in the Revised Storyteller's Companion, which are expanded in Forged by Dragon's Fire. Those rules use this jargon:

    Wonder: Any magic item.
    Charm/Gadget: Single- or limited-used enchanted item. Can be used by initiated Sleepers.
    Artifact/Invention: Durable enchanted item that provides one or more powers. Cannot be used by Sleepers.
    Talisman/Device: An Artifact invested with a portion of it's creator's Arete. Talismans...
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  • Hell, given that the clan and their subsidiary families have been merchant-princes in the Italian peninsula since pre-Roman times, one might wonder how many High Guild founding members are surnamed Giovanni. During the early conspiratorial founding of the Order of Reason, the clan might legitimately not be aware that the profitable enterprise that it's investing in has anything to do with mages at all....
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  • You gotta figure that even the most well-attended Wizard March only mobilizes like 20% of the Order of Hermes, really. I still think the Tremere's survival is pretty miraculous given how many people they're supposed to have pissed off, but I'd say that antagonizing the Tzimisce in the seat of their power is far more threatening that torquing off the (relatively widely-distributed and non-cooperative) Order of Hermes. The Order may have some people in it that can annihilate whole chantries with meteors from space, but it's composed of the sort of people that wouldn't bother to do so just out of...
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Five Eyes
Five Eyes
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