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  • Aleph
    replied to Custom Wonders
    Firts things first, because this was your real issue:



    Your example fails to recognize the fact that you can buy Allies 3 if you just want to have 3 friends, but you can't buy Wonder 1 if you just want to have a watch that Stops Time. Wonder 5 it's mandatory for the latter while it's not for the former.

    We, (and I said we because pretty much everyone in the thread seems to agree) are regarding your problem as the problem of a min-maxer because you don't want a watch that stops time, you want to have as many powers as you can have with that expenditure of...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-17-2019, 12:52 PM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Custom Wonders
    Yeah, agreed with everything.



    My example proved the contrary. The 4 effects on the Time Watch are all part of the same "power" - how could my mage know that the watch has four "effects" rather than one?.

    "Effect" it's a game term, a mage has no way in hell to notice if he's casting one or two because effects aren't a discrete entity "in game". A single act of Focus *can* contain any number of Effects.

    That you can't differentiate between these two dimensions (rules and fiction) it's what makes you unable...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-16-2019, 11:59 AM.

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  • Their knowledge restriction it's quite specific. It involves "modern society" skills that aren't likely to be valued or taught within Garou society. But note that you explicitly CAN expend freebies to learn these skills up to 2 dots in spite of them being utterly alien to wolves (at least in Revised you could, did that change in W20?), and thus a Lupus with Drive would still be a better driver and know more about trafic laws than, say, me (as I don't know anything about that subject). A Lupus with Computer knows more about their PC than the average old person

    More to the...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-16-2019, 09:56 AM.

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  • And Lupus can't have expended more than a year or so with the tribe learning "a lot of common knowledge" before knowing the pack and actually starting the game?.

    Because in other games the starting character age within the supernatural society isn't that relevant. Neonates can have 20-50 years of being a vampire w/o having different sheets. Experience and capacity aren't a function of age, but of experience. Starting character capacity has to be balanced, all the rest it's just flavor that could justify taking some traits over others, but shouldn't make any character unplayable....
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-16-2019, 09:33 AM.

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  • I guess that it isn't dead the thread that can forever lie

    ...

    Ask Ravnos if he thinks mages are nothing but prey now...Really, this whole opinion surged from a particular reading that:

    a)It's a very personal take on how the rules are "lived" by the IOC characters...ST discretion, making mages to be unprepared more often than not. And that would depend on how dangerous it's mage society at the moment (that is, if the Technocracy heeds the pogrom fans or not)



    Nobody lives closer to humanity than Hunters, and they're the...
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  • Aleph
    replied to Thin-Blooded Diablerie
    1)
    Diablere doesn't make you cease to exist. We know this much because the victim can struggle for control with the diablerist after dying. And because, even if the diablerist wins, fragments of the personality of the victim can emerge from time to time.

    To say that you get to blissfully cease to exist all at once after you get murdered it's an assumption you're making. We simply don't know if being slowly assimilated within the consciousness of someone else it's not painfull or horrible in other ways, as your whole identity get's digested by the other vampire over the years....
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-13-2019, 02:22 PM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Custom Wonders
    Indeed we do disagree: My understanding about the meaning of simplicity it's exactly the opposite of yours

    With simple rules it's easy to understand the limitations because there's few of them. Simple rules are bound to be vague and thus have fewer and very general restrictions. More complex rules that take in count the intricacies of Paradigm would have a lot more "factors" stepping in, making very hard to know the exact limits of wonders.

    ‚ÄčIf you think about that, it's absurd that the rules of wonders should be the same for everyone (or even for every kind...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-13-2019, 09:27 AM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Custom Wonders
    I don't like to mix Systems and Fiction. The only notion a mage has about Spheres and Arete it's as a rather cumbersome "magical esperanto" used to explain stuff to mages of other Traditions - only Hermetics use "Spheres". More so, a mage doesn't know how many effects can go at what number of successes or all that mechanical stuff. Mechanics are used to abstract and symplify what really happens in game, not to define it.

    In my example I did the fluff reasons of why the watch does what it does. It's a watch that's linked with time, manipulates it, and immunizes...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-10-2019, 03:18 PM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Custom Wonders
    Ambrosia I'm pretty sure htat IS the style WoD authors had in mind when writting the books, yes.

    Probably Lord Revan plays a different style, which it's OK, but requires to understand that one may find even more holes in the rules, and "traps" within the book, than other players do. Simply because WoD authors hadn't that style's mindset when they wrote the books



    While my characters tend to appreciate power (I like to play wizardly wizards, and mad geniuses), I don't play with an ST that's too harsh with the rules and encounters (not when I play...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-10-2019, 11:05 AM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Custom Wonders
    Your understanding of the rules it's accurate.

    Perhaps you're baffled by the fact that not only the rules allow you to create sub-optimal wonders, but that most canon wonders are sub-optimal?

    Well, don't be: Mage it's not a wargame and thus Wonders should be built with flavor in mind - that's not a rule but rather the philosophy behind the rules. WoD authors were always against optimization and powergaming, they just don't care about that stile of play. They're more prone to build ceilings than floors, and would take pride on not thinking about efficiency when building...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-09-2019, 08:32 AM.

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  • In general immortality rotes make a point of having Mind to solve the memory "issue", as old age it's not just physical. So it really depends on how the immortality works. Unaging doesn't tell every detail about how your immortality works, so it could solve that issue or not. Whatever it's more convinient.



    Well, that assumes your mage want's to reach Ascencion. Some mages don't even believe in Ascencion, and a lot of mages don't care for it a whole lot.

    Also the "something wrong" may be reaching Archmastery, since you're banned forever...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-08-2019, 09:00 AM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Technocratic sorcery?
    Sorcerer Revised and Ascencion Right Hand are the go to for Sorcery.

    Albeit the concept comes from Vampire: Hunters Hunted

    Technocratic equivalent it's the same, but with a scientifical or pseudo-science outlook. Like, shooting ligthining from a gun when using Hellfire from Sorcerer Revised
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  • As Lord Revan said. Mages are fantastic like that, and that's why they have loads of weird Merits. Hence it's more a matter of what's flavorful for the character (and the story) than anything established:

    Maybe the mage found some secret in the ancient times where magick was more common and the barriers between worlds were weaker, like the protag of The Immortal

    Maybe the character has the blessing (or suffers the curse) of a very "high" power like the Wandering Jew

    (note that both these characters are different takes on the same legend of Cartaphilus...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-06-2019, 03:00 PM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Extra success adding damage?
    Yeah, that sounds right.
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  • Aleph
    replied to Extra success adding damage?
    While the rules discourage to add even more damage to the already deadly Arete-based damage, I would argue a successful enough attack should lower the Arete roll as per "Violence Enhances Magick". That way things like aiming your laser make more sense
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  • That dimension was overlapping with earth when he did that, so it would have been possible to reach it w/o Spirit. However, considering that the job of the sorcerer supreme it's to protect earth from such things some Spirit would be in order
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  • Aleph
    replied to Spheres for computation efffects
    Yeah, you're right about that. It is spatial relationships, even if they are weird relationships.

    More proof: The Shade Realm of Correspondence it's described as having bizarre geometry. And what Sphere X can create/manipulate, Sphere X can sense/understand.
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  • Aleph
    replied to Spheres for computation efffects
    Well, it IS under obligation to comply if their player has bought the right Spheres :P

    I think reasonable to demand that to understand the maths underlying any particular phenomena you have to know the Sphere that senses/manipulates that phenomena. If you want to magicaly calculate the mass of Jupiter, you would need Matter 1 on top of whatever "calculus Spheres" you've learned because mass it's a property of the planet. To calculate the probability of an asteroid hitting the earth you would need Correspondence because it's a spatial relationship between discrete objects...
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  • Aleph
    replied to Hanging spells (Time 4)
    Fair enough. Those are good arguments, and conditional permadox it's a high enough price for any Vulgarity.

    It DOES make Life argumentations a little lackluster (being hit with both hammers), but then you use only one Sphere for them, while locking takes at least 2. So I guess in a sense you already paid for the bleeding...
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  • Aleph
    replied to Hanging spells (Time 4)
    I think that what Lord Revan it's asking if it's locking an effect that's not a purely Life based enhancement can get Pattern Bleeding or Permadox.

    I get that changing hair color shouldn't get that, probably...but what about, say, making your hair constantly emit a halo of sunlight (Prime/Forces locked into Life) or giving yourself superman's laser-sight and flight with the "complex" locking mechanisms suggested by Revan. And make those alterations lasting, of course

    Personally, I would think that adding such capabilities to a pattern has to have some reaction...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 05-02-2019, 08:43 AM.

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Aleph
Aleph
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Last Activity: 05-17-2019, 01:36 PM
Joined: 12-15-2013
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