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  • Well, I hope for an optional rule to decouple Touchstones/Convictions (going a little further than "don't have them"). Several houserules about that were proposed in these forums, but I feel a canon optional rule on those same lines would be far easier to bargain with an ST.

    Also, IF the intention it's to use Disciplines as something more akin to Mage Spheres (as was suggested by some), where combinations of the basic Disciplines allow experienced vampires to "build" different powers, it would be neat to have some real guidelines (perhaps even rules?) about creating...
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  • I think Golconda represents a kind of freedom from the vampiric curse. A state where the vampire can harmonize with it's curse to the point it's not much of a curse.

    I see the Jyhad as part of that package that's the "Curse of Caine". And not partipating on it as part of what Golconda is. In that sense I can see a vampire in Golconda rivaling Antes just enough so they can be free of their supernatural grip (at least partially). Becoming able to resist their powers (and the doom that always seem to follow their machinations) better than a 4th gen sounds thematic enough to...
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  • Well, that was the only reason given by the OP 'til now.

    Can't answer for others, but another nitpick *I* have about the rule it's that surpassing instruments it's somewhat linked to the idea that a mage it's going to have 7 Instruments. That's the number the rule uses to determine the Instrument surpassing ratio.

    The Instruments rule (correctly, in my opinion) suggests that you could have more Instruments. 7 it's a minimum that Satyros thought to press players into fleshing out their style, but it's not the maximum. There are even rules to use Instruments you're not...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 07-19-2019, 09:44 AM.

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  • It may be worth to note that Book of Secrets FAQ uses a more imperative language when discussing this, and the answer it's placed in a much more visible place than the short text in the M20 core. Probably that's why people treat this as a rule (it's certainly why I did so).

    It can be argued that the "typically" in M20 core it's still valid (it's not a retcon) because the FAQ reffers the reader to it. I think there's a comunication problem here, the FAQ says something along the lines "as it's stated in M20 core p.x", but unlike that section it doesn't mention anything...
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  • Aleph
    replied to About Forces Sphere
    If I understand this well, the problem it's not that throwing a ligthining bolt it's effective, but that higger level combat options are penalized. And nowhere in mage it's said that this should be the case.

    Suddenly the Prime 2/Forces 2 effect to increase the cinetic energy of an attack becomes the most damaging form of magick. Only superseeded in specific circumstances, like when you need a spell to pierce armor or have some other kind of "special effect".

    Throwing a lightning bolt (like you say) it's useless unless you either have no combat Skills (hence...
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  • Aleph
    replied to My first Ascension Mage
    They still are:

    Voice and vocalization. Languages (when magick and spoken).

    I mean, it doesn't say "spells" per se, but if these don't include "spells" (as in, verbal formulas believed to have magical force) , then I don't know what that word means.

    Arguably Prayers and Invocations, True Names (when uttered), and Curses and Blessings could count to. Altrough they may be considered specific kinds of spells. And there may be other ways of doing these things that don't include spelling anything

    I guess that depending on how you...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 07-17-2019, 09:22 AM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to About Forces Sphere
    Both. It's true that high level effects often require a ritual, but no book says nor implies that high level effects are always going to be casted trough ritual

    Ritual casting it's for "powerful" effects that have a trully epic scale. Like nuking a city or summoning an Archdemon. But that has little to do with Sphere level. I've never read anywhere that high Sphere level effects should be ritualized. On the contrary, I can name some effects that canonically use lvl 5 Spheres, yet are very easy.

    You can, canonically, make someone vanish from Reality with Prime...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 07-17-2019, 08:12 AM.

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  • I agree, that's a bad attempt at balancing - personally, I think that if you went to the effort of decoupling Spheres and Instruments regardless of the terrifying unbalances it adds to the game (say, having a few Instruments that can do everything) it's better to just embrace the insanity and allow players to surpass the Instruments that they want to surpass, according to their own logic based on their Paradigm/Practice

    But perhaps it's better not to decouple Surpassing Instruments and Spheres entirely

    Dataweaver has a very good houserule regarding this. It's like the...
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  • Aleph
    replied to About Forces Sphere
    Yeah, you're not the only one who perceives that problem.

    My favored example it's the power to erase someone from existence at Prime 5. It's explicitly stated in fluff that this is a fearsome power, a feared attack spell...but really, it causes less damage than Prime 2/3 (for more risk of Paradox). It's useful if you just happen to have to kill someone that's trully immortal and regenerates from death (no body, no regen). Or if you really don't want to leave a body and can't be bothered to dispose it trough an additional, easier, spell. Otherwise it's always worse than cheaper solutions....
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    Last edited by Aleph; 07-16-2019, 02:51 PM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to My first Ascension Mage
    Well, it wasn't obvious in your post, suggesting to take "Weapons" as Instrument and leaving it at that.



    Before M20 it was all merged together (and within the Tradition). This wasn't optimal for many, many, reasons. But I'm starting to see it had some advantages. For one, very few people back then would have said that your Paradigm was "less useful" than your Style



    Crippled compared to what?.

    I've seen many a character have Swords or "the Bible" as "Instruments" (Foci back then) w/o feeling...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 07-16-2019, 11:17 AM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to My first Ascension Mage
    It can be both.

    It's described as a Practice in the Focus section...but you can use Skills as Instruments, and MA it's a Skill too. I would think it's an appropiate Instrument for the Practice. If Akashicks can use Do as Instrument (they can), why would we say that other MA styles (like, say, Jackie Chan's style of kung fu) aren't "Instrumentable" ?



    This is relative, while Weapons it's an Instrument, so it's Swords and Knives (specifically) as per the sample in High Ritual Magick.

    It's the player who decides (with the ST) how broad...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 07-15-2019, 10:09 AM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Sphere System
    Pretty much this.

    I find it easy to use, and very satisfying too. It feels good to be able to invent new powers when you need them, being constrained more by your imagination than a set of specific RAW within the context of your power.

    But much of this does depend of the group dynamics. The system requires interpretation, and it's boud to generate different opinions on how things work. It's a good idea, thus, to respect the ST opinion and not start arguments about the system in game. It also requires the ST trusting players and trying to not shut down ideas. What you're...
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  • Aleph
    replied to My first Ascension Mage
    Yeah, people tends to get scared by lions walking in their midst, and call animal control.

    Now, a familiar can have more than one shape. Some are shapeshifters, like being able to transform into a human being. These creatures could fool Unbelief Paradox as long as their more esoterical aspects remain under wraps (and ideally one wouldn't choose a form that atracts too much attention). But you need to expend points on this kind of disguise....
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  • Aleph
    replied to My first Ascension Mage
    In general, Mage Modern Reality isn't kind to such supernaturally looking creatures. However, I would need to know what rules the ST it's using to know how unkind. These things vary between editions, and even feeding them Quintessence might not be enough to avoid them suffering damage.

    I can say that starting Quintessence it's not going to be meaningfull to keep a being like that, having a source to get Quintessence (like a potent Node) and a place with a local Paradigm where the creature can "exist" (like a Sanctum) are more relevant factors
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    Last edited by Aleph; 07-11-2019, 11:34 AM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to My first Ascension Mage
    If you don't want the Familiar to need a constant influx of Quintessence to stay alive, you need something that's not overtly supernatural. Flying while carrying a whole human ain't going to be possible for realistic creatures (unless, perhaps, your familiar it's a combat Drone. But your mage doesn't seem the techie kind).

    Better halve your expectations and chose a white horse or a prey bird, like an eagle. Both are very magestic, and would look well with a knight. The bird may be easier to carry to battle because it's smaller, but depending on the terrain the horse may carry you...
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  • Aleph
    replied to Recharging Nodes
    Indeed, and I would argue that if you have the necessary Quintessence at hand, you should be able to do it at lower levels. Perhaps as low as 3 (that's enough to recharge Wonders)



    Rather than basing the accusation on what mages can do (of which Werewolves have, frankly, no idea), it would be wiser to focus on historic and strategic reasons. Werewolves had bad experiences with mages.

    First, because if they want to enter a Caern it's invarably to use it's power. This it's already bad from the perspective of Garou, that see the place as somewhere to live and...
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  • Since those agencies have little problem working with religious fanatics and supernatural theurges, they may also be able to give more relevance (read: more resources) to the smaller groups HH2 mentions.

    For instance, adding other religious groups (not in the same place/time, of course) you can make the 2I to have more influence in places where the Pope would have less sway. Like middle east (if you don't want to say that place it's now Hell and no human power can do anything about it)
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  • Aleph
    replied to Ancient cosmology of Mage
    Oh, I understand now. Ok, it was predictable, I agree.



    Maybe it's not refered by that name. I was speaking of all the Lore backing the Path of Sutekh in Revised.

    The Aeons, Antediluvians being originally "Solar Gods" (well, Aeons with Ra as their superior). Set being the first one condemned to darkness for his rebelion against Ra and thus the first and most important "vampire" God, if I'm not wrong (maybe I'm confusing some details).

    It's an understatement to say that it's not the most likely canon truth (It contradicts a...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 07-05-2019, 02:02 PM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Ancient cosmology of Mage
    Oh, they know what they wanted to say, but it's much more important what's explicit in the BoN: It's explicitly written IOC . It's explicitly stated to be a collection of fragments collected by conspiranoid vampire researchers.

    Fictional treatises written by fictional characters can't ever be wrong?

    HERE it's where you can find the famus (and canon) "unreliable narrator" of WoD...not because the Authors are unreliable narrators (perish the thought), but because the Authors are implying that what is written it's unreliable. They are implying that the contents...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 07-05-2019, 01:11 PM.

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  • I've never tought about that, but I think there may be other instances where we can find this "eternal return" thing

    For instance, it's states that the Spheres were invented in the Grand Convocation, but in ages past the Pharaoh Thotmes III made a convocation of mages, and these codified "The Nine Cornerstones of Reality".

    And this egyptian court was divided betwen two groups: The Cupbearers of Aset (antecesors of the Council of Nine) and the Reed of Djehuty (antecesors of the Technocracy). It's said that this period of time brought wonders, but the...
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Aleph
Aleph
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