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  • Unbelief it's most definitely a thing, or there would be dragons everywhere.

    When I talk about Zones coexisting, I'm focusing more into the "localized" nature of the Zones (that allows Sanctums and Haunted Houses to be Zones)...That's why I say that if you turn a town of traditional believers into a city by moving lots of "vat atheists" there, you migth still have a neigborhood that's a traditional Zone - unless you do some social engineering there to disolve that group (that may not be necessary if the group wasn't tigthly joined by tradition in the first place)...
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    Last edited by Aleph; Today, 12:55 AM.

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  • Yup. And the Technocracy already did this to some extent, in their space colonies. Before the Storm, they used big colonies to test new social theories and whatnot.

    In principle, it's do-able. However, there are a few considerations to be taken.

    One it's that a place that's too detached from the Consensus might get shunted into the Umbra.

    Earth once included places like Lemuria and the lando of giants. Not any more. Arguably the same happened to the Hollow Earth. It's hard to know how much of this it's places being send to the Umbra and how much of this it's places...
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    Last edited by Aleph; Yesterday, 06:39 AM.

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  • Well. Purposely ruining the career of someone it's a pretty bad thing to do. As stated, it can lead to a lot of suffering.

    Now, Syndicate agents usually harbor an elitist liberal philosophy.

    Playing with that: It could be worse if the agent believes the star deserved to have all that success, and he pretty much has come to steal it. Perhaps the star already was part of a low level Venture, with the potential to grow, before the agent got involved. The agent was tasked to make sure the Venture grows, but latter issued to sacrifice it.

    "Her life would...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-19-2020, 10:31 AM.

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  • Well, all those problems I was mentioning in my post had nothing to with what Dwigth it's doing at his table (nor about what I would do at my table), but rather about what WW it's going to release now to the public.



    I heavily disagree. It's very smart to remember what those sins were to not make the same mistakes twice.



    My post was, pretty explicitly, not about what I like.

    That's a non issue in the face of the ethical need to make changes to the Ravnos, if they get a new publication. I can talk spades about how *I* would like...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-19-2020, 09:56 AM.

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  • I'm assuming that "this game" it's VtM taken as a franchise, and that you're pretending to be WW - because localy at your table I don't see how that would solve anything

    Well, that would be choosing to break the continuity.

    There's nothing wonderful about that, I would say it's rather mundane. You can't really erase what was written in previous books, but a retcon it's something you can, and probably should, do....
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-18-2020, 03:02 PM.

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  • By itself it isn't, but within a clan that "casualy" also happens to have a history of embracing people of a particular ethnic group...

    It's like if I made a clan named Rabbinovitch. That happens to have the flaw of being pathologicaly greedy, and have to take the gold of others. Also they're known to embrace among Jews. Oh, but they're not all Jews...

    There's a point where a "dude, c'mon! , that's too much!" has to be said

    I always liked the Ravnos and their whole aesthetic. Still, changes had to be made - even if it risks to make them...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-18-2020, 02:11 PM.

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  • I think that to *cause* the mental deterioration of the star, Primal Utility would have to be harvesting Quint directly from the person, rather than from the Venture (there it's a rote to exploit workers 'til their healt deteriorates in Sindic. Revised - I guess it could be used on a singer). Now, if the mental deterioration was already happening, this being widely publicized could happen as a consecuence of taking Quint from the Venture, as long as it actually harms the business

    To take the Quint out of the Venture will hurt the business directly. To understand it in a conceptual...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-18-2020, 12:53 PM.

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  • Ah, if they left innovators to pursue their passions, Etherites wouldn't be a Tradition

    But technocrats weren't called Dedalians for nothing. Put weights to the genius, or you risk flying too close to the sun.

    Electrodyne defection was, in hindsight, bound to happen.



    Well, you've reached to those conclusions about the beliefs of the Technocracy on parenthood on your own. So, maybe?

    Let's note that while beliefs in the Union are more homogeneous worldview than than the Traditions, several minor (and not so minor) disagreements...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-17-2020, 02:21 PM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Travel between alternate timelines
    Etherites use the same Rote that VE do (same Spheres and general effect - different book), but w/o the Technocracy-speak. And in that Rote it's mentioned that it is possible that the spell actually allows to travel to a Mirror Zone

    VE book doesn't mention this, but I don't remember the book retconning it either. Ultimately, I think it's up to the ST's cosmology
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  • Verbena see sex as more than necessary. They see it as part of the natural cycles of life, that they revere. Double so for those that actively worship fertility gods. Odd would be the Verbena that doesn't think it's good.

    Progenitors probably have different views about it. For some it migth be a primitive way to reproduce and get pleasure. For others could be an efficient, tried & true, way to do these things (as doctors could say: it's healty for relationships!).
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  • You've not long ago started a Thread about putting all the children of your agent's inside an institution entirely regulated by the Technocracy, constantly monitored by the Technocracy, and at the sole mercy of the Technocracy - aka, "your bosses". Also you seemed to imply that agents would accept that happily, out of fear.

    It's "surveilance state" good or bad at the end of the day?

    Of course Technocrats are tired of Technocratic opression micromanaging every aspect of their lives to make them more efficient - that's one reason of defection. But it...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-16-2020, 11:47 AM.

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  • I think this is interesting.

    But, one needs to put things in perspective and not miss the forest for the trees

    One of the reasons the Sabbat was a (wonderful) mess , it's because it was filled with comunities. Different, often contradictory, Paths are a reflection of this. You may be the only one in a pack following a certain Path - this is not to contradict the idea that paths often are created by other vampires and teached within a comunity, but rather part of the idea of very disparate groups of vampires interconected by a net of "blood bonds" .
    ...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-16-2020, 10:28 AM.

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  • Oh, so people who don't accept "your take" are bad and should feel ashamed.

    Nice.

    I think that your take it's simplifying what's being asked. Paths were more than a dip outside human values, they were moral codes and philosophies about the role of being a vampire that were often in conflict. The Path system included even Humanity as yet another Path, not better nor worse. This is what allowed the Sabbat to be an awesomely complex mockery of religion filled with mystery cults and heresies




    For the above, I think this isn't necessary....
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-13-2020, 10:26 PM.

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  • That could be a start, but not enough.

    1.
    Obviously Touchstones don't work for Paths, but the Tenets themselves are an equally important factor that doesn't work well with Path system.

    I really like Tenets - I like that they're flexible, I think that allows for a much more "human" morality, because human morality it's relative to a lot of social factors (the classic example being that a soldier under the old system would have abysmal humanity values, comparable to that of psycho serial killers)... And that allows to play more variety of campaigns (if only...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-13-2020, 08:07 PM.

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  • I think that if mages weren't limited by the diverse facets of Paradox, they would start looking a lot like exalts
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  • Aleph
    replied to Onyx Path Kicked to the Curb?
    XD

    I think the same could be said of all Mage editions - except maybe the 2nd....
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  • Yeah. To some extent that's true, but that doesn't need to be always good for a given low level agent. The agents of the NWO aren't called spooks for nothing.

    The Union cares about you being efficient, that's not always the same as being happy. More so, the Union isn't always consistent about what that means. If the "souless" Technocrat it's a myth of the Traditions in latter editions, the same happens with the image of the Technocracy working as a perfect monolith.

    For street level agents, showing detachment it's a survival tactic not only against external...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-13-2020, 10:21 AM.

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  • If we get to that, there's also the Resonance. It's usually stronger in mages and magical stuff, but everything has one.

    If someone has a good Resonance, that migth impregnate the places where that person lives and works, attracting the atention of benevolent spirits - and, why not, spiritually sensitive mages that want to chill out, and migth seek such places to do so....
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  • It is.

    Altrough Traditionalists still tend to believe so - and that's exactly what the Technocrats want because it minimizes tactics like going after the agent's families. To some extent it's even true from an enemy's perspective, since clones and robots are often deployed against the Traditions.

    It may very well be that a given mage never sees a real Technocrat until it's too late to do something about it - and even when that's not the case, Mind 1 shields are quite common. So, from a certain pov, it's reasonable for the myth to prevail

    Albeit, the idea...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-12-2020, 03:02 PM.

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  • I think with Mages one thing to be considered it's that they tend to have very high Willpower. 5 it's the minimum, and that's already way above the norm. More so: When the Awakening happens, this it's a Will that literally shapes reality against the firm beliefs and expectations of the masses. Hence why I think that Belief pays a very important role, so to speak. This will shape your reality

    An Appearance 7, being supernaturaly beautiful, would make pretty much anyone want to have sex with that person - but if there are live people who could reject such beauty for some reason (like,...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 11-12-2020, 10:30 AM.

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Aleph
Aleph
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