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  • Aleph
    replied to [V5] The Sabbat in V5
    monteparnas Apocalypse it's over because figthing for nature it's dated, and figthing the Wyrm sucks? ... I have no words. And I really don't think it's my place to speak, I'm not exactly a Werewolf fan.

    But I AM curious. I believe this it's going to be profussely explored and detailed when the time comes, by the people that actually plays that game.
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    Last edited by Aleph; 09-22-2021, 10:33 PM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Dante's Ascension Blog?
    There were some metaplot developpments in M20 that weren't very fleshed out. Like the Disparate Aliance, and a new Council in "the Colony". It would be interesting to see an insider's perspective on all of that

    Now that you mention Dante...Mage has the Spy Demise in the DigiWeb as a mostly neutral place where the shadiest computer wizards of every faction (and some beings from outside) join to exchange intelligence and stories. If one were to explore a ton of Lore IOC, that could be a good place to start.
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  • Indeed.

    Vampires helping mortals to make an efficient "vampire-killing" organization to deal with Jyhad enemies, and having it backfire?. Wouldn't be the first time.

    Technocracy manipulation?. Thematically, on one hand, as was said it takes protagonism from vampires (and true "badass-normal" humans). Also: 5e doesn't have enough develop on mages to make them a relevant antagonist.

    That being said, a classic WoD "wink" on the style of: "The SI has access to secret technology that works like Artifacts, provided by some misterious...
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  • Yeah, that: That way mages will lose time pursuing the leads, and may expose themselves.

    In general, I think a good idea would be to provide an alternate easy (but wrong) solution intended to led the mages astray. Mages can see a lot, but they have to want to see: So if you can provide an alternate truth to the most superficial scans, they may miss some clues.

    Time alone will allow to see the scene. That doesn't mean you will understand the scene, that's where the other Spheres enter. Like, w/o specific Spheres you wouldn't know that the scene has an illusion superimposed...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 09-15-2021, 11:04 AM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to Spirit Combat Question M20
    You've won the RAW, that's actually a canon way to do it (Well, canon for Revised. HDYDT could be taken as a retcon)

    In Dreamspeakers book, p. 69, there's a rote called Spirit Eating (Mind 3, Prime 3, Spirit 2): It's long, but bassically it "enchants" a weapon (as per Prime 2) so it can do Aggravated damage to spirits, if you damage the spirit with this weapon you eat the spirit's quintessence, and it's knowledge and memories (Mind it's for that). Also, you may get infected with mental flaws or personality traits of the spirit. "Reducing a spirit’s Power to zero using...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 09-04-2021, 11:00 AM.

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  • monteparnas : Oh, well, yeah. I agree with all of that. I misunderstood.



    But to make that point you need to adress why *I* called them the nuclear option. Otherwise we're talking about different things, and you're just playing with the words to make my statement something that it very clearly wasn't when taken in it's context.

    I made very clear in previous posts what the context was (The whole "Divine Mandate" thing), and it shouldn't be necessary to repeat. Generalizing: If X is Vulgar and that won't change by belief, it's exactly the problem...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 09-04-2021, 10:19 AM.

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  • Precisely because the Consensus/RZ can't change this, and there aren't other ways of Vulgarity changing, saying that something it's against the EF implies that something it's going to be Vulgar (at least on Earth). I think that would be the most direct interpretation, or I'm wrong?

    Altering the weather with divine magick CAN be Vulgar (can't it?). We're talking about explicitly supernatural power, I don't think it would be controvertial if it can be Vulgar. Assuming that's the case, then the only thing that could make it "become Coincident" (maybe commonplace, even) would...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 09-03-2021, 02:28 PM.

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  • Dataweaver : Sorry. I shouldn't have worded it like that. It's a bad habit of going out tangents and assuming things that I need to change.

    Still you know "making things Vulgar" does make things more difficult. Literally. It also makes things to be practically impossible, if not theorically so - you can't keep casting Vulgar magick for long periods of time w/o the world reacting. The whole point of the Ascencion War it's that Paradox matters, and EF matter to Paradox

    Now, the rules only cover true magick, but lore-wise the Consensus goes beyond that, it has...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 09-03-2021, 12:12 PM.

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  • If "good kings can bring good or bad weather, disease, quantities and behavior of animals" it's as agains't the EF as “making water run uphill", then kings wouldn't be granted such power by the Consensus, and mages can't consistently enforce it w/o blowing up with Paradox.

    I would say that disregarding the legitimacy of kings because "earth" it's against it, it's a nuclear option even if it woulnd't be completely impossible to do because it would never flow naturally.

    The big problem I have with your worldview about the Technocracy it's that...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 09-03-2021, 09:40 AM.

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  • Well, that I would 100% agree with, as much as the Consensus itslef would be an EF.

    Morality and will do change, many would argue that morality it's inherently consensual. Something society creates. I think that debate goes beyond our limited scope, but I would want to at least entertain the posibility.

    BUT *The Consensus* it's a "supernatural force" that warps reality, not social relativity.

    The Consensus can't change the consensus, but the consensus can and does change the Consensus? If we can agree that makes it an EF, then EF it is....
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  • This is not entirely true. It's true in it's spirit and conclussion, but I think we need to adress a bit the part of the Consensus. I would argue it can and does influence much of the supernatural world, and also many aspects of human life that are definitely important in how people organize

    1° And more obvious: It influences magick and supernatural beings (let's remember unicors and dragons were a thing before the Consensus kicked them out). At least, Mage organizations were extremely involved in some forms of older regimes (Wu Lung and Verbena were big on this), and that means...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 09-03-2021, 08:54 AM.

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  • Ah, here's the problem Dataweaver was talking about. While some idealists may believe in this, this is the Craftmason endgame - the Technocratical hierarchy demonstrated to be very much against becoming irrelevant.

    But I think this can be conciliated.

    Not all hierarchies are classist, one very technocratical hierarchy that Marx never intended would go away it's the hierarchy of expertice. Marx objection against burgoise was cemented in the idea that their claim to production was every bit as artificial as that of nobles: a "title" enforced by law, rather than...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 09-02-2021, 08:21 AM.

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  • The curtain prevented travel, but I think the Technocracy was already there. In that regards, there would be two technocracies at that time - one in each side of the curtain.

    As far as mage factions go, I don't see why those Technocrats couldn't have had influence (Yeah, Baba was there - but elder vampires are everywhere. If we go with Vampire, it's debatable if Technocrats have that much influence in the west either...the problem of "who holds the most influence" has never been realy solved, and probably can't be solved)....
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    Last edited by Aleph; 08-31-2021, 07:24 AM.

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  • Aleph
    replied to The Factory (Technocratic Device)
    Like the tone, it gives me some MECHA vive.

    It makes one think about how much you can get away with in the eartly realm exploiting reality zones.The product it's mundane, the larger Zone it's "manufacturing" (Which I'm guesing would ease production magick, and also some "accidents" & some inhuman labor conditions), and the space tigthly controled. It's more supernatural denizens and stuff (like the disembodied brain-plants) could exist in sanctum-like places. Authorized personel only, of course.

    The whole human resource management may cause some...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 08-30-2021, 09:16 AM.

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  • Your argument sounds a lot like "Korra can't have a bad take on politics if it hasn't a take on politics".

    All I'm asking it's to elaborate further why you think LoK can't have muddled notions of politics if they're a secondary or terthiary theme. I don't think my comment was anything like you say, I think it was a very reasonable thing to ask for

    That's certainly not how I see any of this working, and that may come from a different understanding of what is a primary, secondary and thertiary theme, what are their roles in fiction. What is having time - and if...
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    Last edited by Aleph; 08-25-2021, 12:49 PM.

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Aleph
Aleph
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Last Activity: 09-22-2021, 10:33 PM
Joined: 12-15-2013
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