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  • Perhaps the best thing to do is define what exactly is "Personal Horror".

    Here is my take on it for VtM. Personal Horror focuses around two questions that are played out in game, (but specifically when there is choice involved, and knowing something is evil or wrong, and doing it anyway) :
    What have I done?
    What have I become?

    So, personal horror is a part of the game as far as the slow decline of Humanity and Virtues, and also for things like Diablorie.

    Things such as The Beast, feeding, and hunger are not, usually, as typically there...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 08-15-2018, 09:38 AM.

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  • Aside from D&D 5E, I'm really struggling to think of too many major games not on DriveThru. Pathfinder, but Paizo is itself a publisher/distributer....
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  • As someone only recently getting into D&D 5E, but having played almost every edition, I disagree.

    I have noticed plenty of ambiguity in the rules, particularly in spell descriptions/functions, and it is not terribly clear or easy to initially grasp the spells known vs spells per day rules, for instance.

    D&D 5E has also largely lacked much direct competition.

    I'll agree it does seem smooth, but it is at the cost of meaningfulness....
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    Last edited by Beckett; 08-15-2018, 08:58 AM.

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  • Beckett
    replied to V5 Character sheet?
    Trust me, it is NOT just you.
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  • Just a heads up, they failed. The magic nukes didn't do it, and the single Anti, in a weakened state, and after already battling acient Eastern Kindred, multiple Werewolf packs, multiple Mage hit teams, etc... survived it.

    In the end the Technocracy's ultimate plan for destroying all of the Antideluvians failed to even get one, and they had to scramble to hit it with four suns to the face, and just managed to kill it.

    I wouldn't count on the Technocracy doing shit....
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  • What is that?...
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  • Fashion has nothing to do with it. You might be confussing it with lazy....
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  • I guess you misunderstood. What I was saying is I did a word search on those three books, and the phrase "personal horror" came up a total of that many times per edition. Granted, word search is not perfect, but I think you are incorrectly assuming the game has ever been sold as personal horror over things such as "gothic punk"...
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  • I pretty much concure with your view, but would rate Rules and Visuals as a Miss-by-a-Mile.

    The three columns thing is fucking hideous, and I honestly find much of the art to be fairly "meh". A few things stand out as ok or good, but they simply do not make up for,... well anything.

    The lore/Metaplot advancement reminds me of all those rather immature D&Dish ideas I had as a newb, making the party start at level 15+, shipwrecked on an island with no gear or memories....
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    Last edited by Beckett; 08-11-2018, 10:54 PM.

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  • I'll at least agree that V5 has little in common with 1st Ed.
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  • @ Lys

    I see a lot of "most people don't", "many tables didn't" comments in your examples and I'm curious how you came to this conclusion, as I disagree with at least some of them, and also think you might be misunderstanding some of the discussions on the subjects.

    For instance, the main issue with Appearance is that it doesn't really have any other major role/rolls for it, not that it reduces initial social encounters.

    I like it being difficult to heal in combat, personally, and am not really familiar with any "no one uses it"....
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  • So, in a way, it was already originally presented that way. Firstly with options for playing through thecWeek of Nightmares, as a Ravnos, as a Sabbat Pack, or as a Thin Blood. Secondarily, it wasn't so much a one-and-done event, but rather something that progressed a bit, and could have gone further if the end of the line had not come. Some of the Sabbat Ravnos realized that neither the Lasombra or Tzimisce Clan had a Week of Nightmares event, and began to question. There was also the building concept of what do we do now?
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  • Interestingly, I just did a word search for Personal Horror in VtM.
    1st Ed = x1
    2nd Ed = x2
    Rev Ed = x0...
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  • To be fair, the WoD has always been more of a Gothic Punk theme than a Personal Horror as far as on the tin. It was CoD that focused more on Personal Horror, (as I think you mean it) when it went away from Punk, and Gothic as a modern culture.

    1st Ed, mostly the Core book did have a very strong personal horror theme in focusing on fighting the Beast and struggling to keep your Humanity (Forever Knight, Interview with the Vampire).
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    Last edited by Beckett; 08-07-2018, 09:10 AM.

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  • Beckett
    replied to State of the Sabbat in V5
    Are you kidding, that would be amazing, (in V1-V20), plopping them both down in a city and outright forbidding the Tremere from directly attacking. Everyone knows if something happens to the Salubri, it is the Tremere's fault, and with the Assamites joining too, well the Tremere are just not as high and mighty as they once had been in the Camarilla....
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  • That is correct, though I would argue even the Ravnos was not that invasive, as White Wolf made it rather clear at the time that they where goung to leave the percentages largely in each ST's hands.


    I know you are very opinionated, but I completely disagree, and would say Revised was the absolute best edition all around. It took a lot of the rediculous and gonzo of 2nd and not only made it reasonable and internally consistent, but presented it in more mature and playable ways, turning moustache-twirling bad guys into well-written villians and antagonists. And while I get it,...
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  • So... VtR. Is not the exact point for Requiem and the CoD?

    I think the main problem is that that larger audiance basically doesn't exist. One of the main design philosophies behind V5, officially or not, seems to be to have taken "the best parts" of VtM and VtR and put them together, except for a lot of people, the best part of Masquerade was it was not Requiem, and vice versa.

    I'm not bashing either game when I say that, but there are a lot of mutually exclusive elements. Masquerade's strengths are its deep lore/story/metaplot, varied play styles, globalism,...
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  • Hold up a sec. With the exception of the Avatar Storm, and the four books that ended the line, Revised is the edition that opened up all of the avenues of play by presenting different groups and styles in internally consistent and reasonable options....
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  • I am not a huge Mage fan, so am trying to stay neutral on the subject, (or was that more an arguement against V5?), so again, simply pointing out what I recall the logic behind it was. I am not really saying I agree, but I can understand it, and did point out that it was a major draw for many Mage players.
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  • I kind of see it more as a way to mesh VtM and VtR, honestly. One of the issues with Mage, like it or not, was it was getting sort of rediculous, in the sense of to write for. It was becoming sort of like 10 totally different games, and needed to be dialed back a bit.

    Unfortunately, that was also the specific appeal for many Mage fans, where one Chronicle could be a street level turf war, another a Star Trek-like space opera, another an exploration of real world lite religion & politics, and another building empires and dynasties across different realities and planes. Or all...
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Beckett
Beckett
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