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  • Beckett
    replied to Embrace Mortals with numina
    Personally, I'd actually view the character with True Faith in Gaia, or any of the spirits as the very Snowflaky character. I know Werewolf kind of goes out of it's way to ignore a lot of the real world religions and faiths in it's setting that do not fit in easily with that version of the settings overall assumed reality, lets look at things a little more realistically. Every single Homis Garou is going to grow up in the human taught world where faiths like Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism are the realities to many people. It's, I think, a hell of a lot more likely that the Garou would very...
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    Last edited by Beckett; Yesterday, 07:49 PM.

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  • Beckett
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    A Caitiff is someone someone that does not belong to one of the established Clans nor a Bloodline. That's it. Time of the Thin Bloods and WoD Outcasts both offer a good amount of information on them. Typically its something about the Embrace simply not carrying over all of the details about what makes one a member of the Clan. It also tends to involve the Sire not knowing a lot about their own Clan, or being Caitiff, as well, but not always. Sometimes something simply doesnt take.

    The other big one is when some other factor changes the Embrace in some way. Its much less common, and...
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  • Beckett
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    I wouldnt think it would be much different than any other VtM game.
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  • Beckett
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    No, what I said was it was not like other Assamites, (though looking back I could have been more clear with that sentence). As far as we know, ur-Shulgi came that way, and at least one confirmed childer, and their childer does NOT grow darker with age.

    So, just be clear, I'm not saying that he is 100% a Baali. Only suggesting that there might be some hints of it going back for a while, and depending on how you look at a lot of other things, pieces start to fit into places....
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    Last edited by Beckett; 03-19-2017, 06:23 PM.

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  • Beckett
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    Read literally one line before and after your highlight.
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    Last edited by Beckett; 03-19-2017, 05:23 PM.

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  • Beckett
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    Ur-Shulgi shows up out of no where towards the end of the Second Baali War where all of the other Clans combined are failing, and turns the tide. He just happens to be a brand spanking new Cainite, just recently embraced, but already a master of Thaumaturgy, and everyone there just happens to accept him, too.

    When Ur-Shulgi woke up, he purged all of the religious Assamites from the Clan. Almost like he couldn't stand religious stuff...

    As mentioned, his skin is not dark like other ancient Assamites, and his Childer's was not either.

    He is a child, (or very...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 03-19-2017, 03:34 PM.

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  • Beckett
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    I think that it's a combination of a few things. One is that it feels like from reading here that "the Seven" are the minority of the clan, by a, comparatively speaking, margin. However, as the Clan/Bloodline itself is supposed to be very rare, that doesn't seem right. How are "the Seven" the best known members of the Clan when they are basically just a myth, and if they do exist, (they do, but very few even know about them), their entire survival depends on staying hidden.

    Generally "the Seven" have been written as martyrs, clinging desperately to Humanity,...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 03-19-2017, 10:30 AM.

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  • Honestly, I think the difference between real Anarach and poser Anarch is kind of irrelevant, as I was more trying to say I doubt that the Movement in general would accept them at all in most cases. The risk is just too much for so little reward. Now, you are free to disagree, I'm simply stating my opinion.



    Actually, according to the lore, Nosferatu are individuals first, Clan second, and Sect last. Which is kind of the point. A Camarilla Nos and a Sabbat Nos might not agree on a lot, BUT, no matter who is right, they are both screwed. Their founder and his other Clan...
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  • I would say, unless they are embraced by some very prominent members of the Movement, most Toreador, Tremere, and Ventrue would have an extremely difficult time being accepted. They just don't have a lot to bring to the table compared to the extremely high probability that they are spies or monkey wrenches. It's probably less any sort of "Clanism" as it is that there have just been way, way too many terrible experiences in the past, and that those Clan's strengths simply do not really play well into the Movement's overall goals.

    Now, granted, no Clan is a monolith, but,...
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  • Beckett
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    Ya, I really don't like Onyx Path's view of the Salubri. Their Dark Ages version just made no sense in the continuity, and this one basically tries to pick up a tad where that version was going and take it off in an even less central to the game way, making "the Seven" some sort of loony cult that even the prissy "true Salubri" scoff at. They remind me of the secondary villain from Blade 2 mixed with Ultraviolet, the one trying to cultivate a perfect humanity, but only so they can just feed and murder them, or use them for political gain and a stepping stool to get on that...
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  • Beckett
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    Meh. It's a matter of tastes, really. I personally just prefer them as an unconfirmed (and probably non-existent) myth. (ie, they are Caitiff that just happen to have originally come from the Clan/Bloodline. Not an actual caste)



    I wouldn't say it's bad, and honestly a lot of things are going to be very subjective, so I can't really suggest you do or do not buy the book rather than the PDF. In all fairness, though, if you are not sure, I'd suggest buying the PDF and then going with the book thereafter, only to save you money IF you do not like it in the end.
    ...
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  • Beckett
    replied to Lore of the Bloodlines
    Thus far, a very solid 3. Not amazing, but not terrible. I was not impressed with the Samedi, but it also was not terrible. Just not much there to actually use, I guess. I really disliked the Salubri section which essentially went the new take from the Dark Ages and super snowflaked the "Watchers" while giving the finger to all prior editions. The writing has significantly improved from some of the more recent V20 books, putting them more on par with things like the W20 line.

    I'm going to look into the Gargoyles, Harbingers, and Daughters next, so I'm not sure yet what my...
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  • On page 86, top right:
    "Many Kindred operated with only the smallest caution paid to the Masquerade. Some islands became fiefs rules openly by their Kindred masters."

    I believe "rules" should be "ruled".

    On page 87, mid left

    "Death is a natural part of the world. Senseless death caused by manmade disasters and senseless violence is not."

    Manmade is two words; man made
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    Last edited by Beckett; 03-15-2017, 08:38 PM.

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  • Refresh. . . refresh. . . Refresh
    <It's not working>...
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  • Thanks. I guess I should have been more specific in asking if it actually showed up anywhere in W20, but still, I had not considered looking into other game lines for it. Opening it's own box of worms, ha ha....
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  • It's an odd term all things considered. What makes someone "supernatural"?



    Something to keep in mind is that the above quote comes from the V20 (Lupines), and not the W20 (Garou and Delirium) game line. Because the example is talking about a "lupine" in a Dark Ages V20 game, that's fine. But, in a general sense, there is not, as far as I can tell, in the 20th Anniversary Edition, any special cases made for "supernaturals" being immune to the Veil, and from a W20 perspective, it doesn't actually make any sense for such exceptions. The Delirium...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 03-14-2017, 07:06 PM.

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  • Beckett
    replied to Alternate rules on Celerity
    I've toyed with a few different things, but the one I like the most simply changes the cost, leaving the Discipline the same as written, otherwise.

    Essentially, when you first activate it, it costs you 1 BP for each level you want to activate, and this can go beyond your Generation Limits. Every turn after that, it cost 1 BP to maintain those extra Actions. If you stop feeding BP to it, even for 1 turn, or, if you decide you want to use more (or less) levels of Celerity than you had originally chose, you have to spend the entire new amount of BP to start the process all over again....
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  • Just out of curiosity, did anyone ever find anything in the 20th Anniversary line about Ghouls, (or Mages, or Changlings, or Mummies, etc. . .) being immune to the Delirium? All I keep finding is that it affects humans.
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  • It's hard to say. In V20,"All difficulties to Dominate or otherwise mentally control a frenzied character are increased by two, and all difficulties to resist the effects of such mental control are reduced by two." That seems identical in V20 DA. But that is for another Vampire. Werewolves are supposed to have much stronger, and much more natural Frenzies, and a +3-+4 Difficulty would not really be out of order. Secondarily, issuing commands that are contrary to the target's nature can outright cause the Discipline to fail, or have minimal effect.

    IN the Dark Ages V20, it
    ...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 03-12-2017, 08:50 PM.

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  • Personally, I would say that trying to Dominate an enraged Werewolf, in Crinos nonetheless, and saying "Freeze!" is pretty much the definition of against their nature, and would automatically fail.

    Now, a command like "Slaughter!", "Smash!", or "Kill!" might work, but it's going to be a very difficult roll for the Player.

    I do think the Ghoul would be affected by the Delirium, and honestly I'd also have both the Ghoul and Cainites roll against Frenzy/Rotschreck for even seeing the Werewolf.

    As far as the Werewolf surviving...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 03-11-2017, 09:37 PM.

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Beckett
Beckett
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Last Activity: Yesterday, 11:37 PM
Joined: 12-17-2013
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