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  • Interestingly, V20 seems to have completely removed the Palla Grande Ritae, and insinuated that the Vaulderie seems to be a intra-pack ritual only.



    I think any such individual that attempted to not take part in the Vaulderie (maybe once) would be viewed as a spy, defector, or coward, (their loyalty to the Sabbat questioned), and would not live very long.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]...
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  • I had attempted to move this discussion with 11twiggins over to a PM thread, but didn't really get a response. I can only assume that he or she either didn't notice it or has no desire to debate it.Which is fine, but also seems to imply that they are simply trying to get the last word in, and it's probably the best idea to simply drop the subject entirely. I doubt that anyone is going to change anyone's mind, nor accept the other's arguments as valid ones, and is more likely to polarize anyone else than anything.

    The original intent was to discuss the subject within the context of...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 07-07-2017, 11:53 AM.

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  • Beckett
    replied to True Faith PCs
    All Cainites Frenzy as soon as they "wake up" from the Embrace. They have 0 BP, and means they can't even roll to resist it, (no more Virtue Dice than current BP).

    My personal preference and point of view is that all Cainites are damned. They start out that way, their entire society is organized to accept that as a fact, (which it is). That, however, does not mean that they have to stay that way. Redemption/Salavation are possible, but hardly common. Otherwise the game is just utter black with the occasionally utter black. Not different degrees of black, black and white,...
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  • Beckett
    replied to True Faith PCs
    Depends. One of the fundimental concepts of the game is that part of the nature of Cainites that they already damned.

    If you look at it from a human's perspective, and particularly a religious human's perspective who a.) probably has an above average or different moral gauge that includes danger to the soul, not just the body, and b.) may have a direct line to the divine, well those monstrous blood sucking fiends are probably 100% evil incarnate.

    I mean demons, devils, fiends, dark gods, asura, genies, etc . . . are pretty notorious for being exceptionally deceptive,...
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  • Im not sure. I would assume that by increasing those things, it might also make them as a Sect incapable of rejecting humanity, (not Humanity) as they would be required to work, train, and study with the happy meals on legs frequently.

    That would probably kill off the idea of following Paths, as it would make most people uncomfortable.

    Then again, I dont really consider the Sabbat the Eat, Pillage, Burn sect, although they certainly have more of these types than anyone else. Ive always seen them as not being affraid to do those things when needed, but not going out of...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 07-06-2017, 11:02 PM.

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  • My apologies. Failed my check, again.
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  • Beckett
    replied to True Faith PCs
    It also seems to preclude one character from holding out their hand to the other and saying "Forget not, never forget that you have promised me to use this silver to become an honest man.... Jean Valjean, my brother: you belong no longer to evil, but to good. It is your soul that I am buying for you. I withdraw it from dark thoughts and from the spirit of perdition, and I give it to God!"

    I was referring more to the redemption of others, not yourself.
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  • Beckett
    replied to True Faith PCs
    I kind of get what your trying to do with it, but this also seems to make the concept of redemption (outside of by sword and fire) impossible for those with True Faith, which sort of seems to me to miss the point, or at least one of the big points I'd look for in anyone with True Faith. Part of believing in something greater than the mortal, material world is believing, having hope that miracles can happen.

    I'd almost rather play without True Faith existing at all. This both sort of places True Faith as just another power, not really different or unique from any other Discipline or...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 07-06-2017, 07:04 PM.

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  • Not nearly as much as you seem to think. Salary is DERIVED FROM the roman concept of salt allowance, which is kind of common knowledge, but that is not what the actual word Salary is or means. Sal, (or Sail or Sall, I honestly can't remember), being a word for Salt. As an example, motor is derived from the Latin word for "move" or "to move", which is similar to the meaning of the word motor, but does not mean the same thing. (Motor could be referring to a "driver" of a vehicle, or it could be referring to a machine like an engine, or could be referring to a description...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 07-06-2017, 06:52 PM.

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  • Beckett
    replied to True Faith PCs
    I don't know, it sort of does play into the concept that vampires are monsters, and it's very likely that a person with True Faith would view them, (rightfully???) as demons, or agents of hell/darkness/evil.

    I also don't see that as being an outright contradiction that some of them, extremely few of them perhaps on par with the number of people with True Faith in the world, might also still be redeemable. It's one of the concepts I liked about the Hunter the Reckoning perspective, in that a lot of different views where presented, and none of them where really given any more or less...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 07-06-2017, 04:31 PM.

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  • Self-deleted, as I couldn't make it not come off as a little too mean, even as an attempt at humor.
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    Last edited by Beckett; 07-06-2017, 04:15 PM.

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  • While it's not something I personally really want to explore overly much myself, has always been something along the lines of the movie Instinct. It also has a lot of likeness, at least to me, about being a soldier, where we have to sacrifice a lot of things that we find important for a "great good". So, viewing the Sabbat similar to the assassin from Serentiy, where he believes in a greater society, but also knows that he will never be allowed there. The things that he has to do just to make it come about also make him forbidden from being there. That doesn't mean all Sabbat are like...
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  • Beckett
    replied to True Faith PCs
    I partially agree with this, but also have an issue with it. While I know most poisons and venoms will not kill me, (challenge me), I also know that most of them that are not outright lethal to many people will probably hurt like hell. Because I'm not an idiot, I'm not going to go stick my hand into a venomous snake's cage, just 'cause.

    There really isn't anything to be gained by doing so. It's not going to reinforce my constitution (faith/belief), it's simply going to hurt a lot.

    I have also had some issues with allowing non-Monotheistic religions to have True Faith....
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  • As a fellow medic, "Here's some Motrin 800's. Drink water, walk it off, and make your blasted Self-Control check. . ."...
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  • As a fellow medic, "Here's some Motrin 800's. Drink water, walk it off, and make your blasted Self-Control check. . ."

    :P



    I am pretty sure everyone agrees on this. Just not on the paradigm with which to do it best. Lets move on please.



    Except, well it kind of does. Just because you say so doesn't make it factual or beyond scrutiny. Medical Science is not perfect, and it changes literally all of the time, sometimes (and not too terribly uncommonly), saying the exact opposite of it's prior stances on subjects. There are...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 07-06-2017, 01:14 PM.

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  • Similarly, my entire point, if you want to say I'm the one that started it, was to talk about the versions of the belief system in the game, which I felt was very appropriate as the topic at hand is literally about hypocrisy and being horribly wrong, but loving it.

    Obviously the RL side is a very contentious subject, and everyone has their own experiences and opinions, but we have been asked a few times to move off of it, and a lot of folks (me too), need to spend that extra Willpower on their Self-Control checks.

    :P...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 07-06-2017, 12:02 PM.

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  • The type of feminism I, and speaking only for myself here, am against, are the types that think things like "toxic masculinity", the patriarchy, and that no matter what, woman have it all harder/worse than men. The type of feminism that says, or refrains from saying aloud "it's okay when that happens to men" or "men deserve it", or that feminism can not be wrong in any possible way. I believe that it is concepts like this that actively makes woman's life's worse and harder. It tries to remove responsibility and consequences while placing the blame on others. It tells...
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    Last edited by Beckett; 07-05-2017, 03:32 PM.

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  • Not really. I am simply saying that a "vampire religion" doesn't have to worship Caine, hate the Antediluvians, or even suggest that Caine and each of the Antediluvians hate each other. It seems to be a very strange assumption I see pop up.

    For instance, we gather from the Nosferatu legend that <Nosferatu> wants to earn his way back into Caine's (and also <Toreador's>), good graces by correcting what he believes his true sin was, creating more Childer. We also see a few different versions of the conflict between the Antediluvians for the Toreador and Nosferatu,...
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  • Here are some of the things I found very unnecessary about the Lilith write up from the Black Hand book, both contradicting the prior material on the subject and seeming to vary almost completely. It also seems the entire purpose was to act as a soap box....
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  • No it doesn't. As far as we know, they where his grandchildren, and he cared for them. However, they also betrayed him because they collectively turned away from his teachings and ultimately murdered his children, (the 2nd Gen). He then cursed them, (well 12 of them), and in a rage left. We really don't have any indication that he loathed them afterwards or that they then loathed Caine. They did however, begin to war amongst themselves, as they later found themselves in positions of being the new absolute powers, (Caine didn't return, so now they are in charge), but what tended to happen is that...
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Beckett
Beckett
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Last Activity: 07-12-2017, 09:38 PM
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