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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    It's not a question of whether the Assembly is actually better or not, it's a matter of what the FC think. The fact is, they clearly do have massive issues with the consilium structure....
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    For such a monumental event, it's been given a surprising lack of space. I mean, the causes are vague and to an extent implied, which I suspect is where this back and forth on the SL-FC relations is coming from. It'd be really good to see a clear picture of it....
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    Who says? I mean, you're lumping in a large number of varied roles there. The FC is a direct democracy of a tiny number of people; it's not obvious it does need lawyers, judges or civil servants.



    I feel that misses how politics works. Whatever the idealistic intentions, the reality is that it still forms an unelected oligarchy of more powerful Awakened who are then called to settle disputes over which they have a vested interest. Sure, that's certainly workable and the SL do a good job making the thing work, but that doesn't change the fact that the underlying structure...
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    But you do think they can't see that their philosophies are essentially the same. Or perhaps you think they do think they're just the same, which I don't really see any evidence of.



    I've never understood why they had to be either. They're authoritarian legalists, that's what they are. It's even outright stated that when they're working democratically, they still pretend that they're an autocracy where the deacon calls the shots. But that doesn't make them not idealists, well intentioned or maybe even right.



    That may well be true, but it's again,...
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    Let me rephrase a little. It's certainly possible that the SL and FC could come to be very close due to certain similarities, however I think it ultimately requires one side to seriously compromise itself, and it generally looks like the FC are the ones doing that.



    I agree it kinda looks that way from the readers perspective (writing made-up ideologies is hard), but if it were that simple then the characters in the setting would be morons.



    That's a Hierarchy. I'm not disagreeing that they accept it, they clearly do, but that's still a very...
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    I dunno about Dave's official version, but I don't really see it. I mean, unlike the Diamond Orders, the FC has genuine ambitions to replace the consilia system. That directly flys in the face of the SL who effectively run that system.

    Personally, the SL inviting the FC to join the Pentacle looks a lot less like an idealistic move, and more like a clever co-option....
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  • I like that the setting is detailed in a fairly ambivelant manner, though some bits are written oddly. Also, it might be too complex a period to put all in one. For instance, the Purges are potentially really evocative of the God-Machine, but to actually explain them would take a lot of space so you end up with a very simple version which isn't.

    Honestly, I'm not sure if it's a really good chapter, or the setting in itself is just so evocative of Demon.
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    It's in Mage Noir. The SL and FC cooperated after WW2 to get members of the Orders out of the remains of the German Empire.

    However, members of the FC used it as cover to reintegrate members of Pantechnicon. (Which the SL probably should have seen coming, but whatever)

    It ends badly when the Guardians reveal it. The two orders fall out very badly, though who exactly is worse depends on whether you think Nazi Thearchs or Seers are worse....
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    Also, there's the quasi-theology of the Guardians that seems to be absent from the Serpent's Eyes. The Silver Ladder aren't the only people out to convert people.

    Actually, it's not all that clear to me whether the underlying philosophy of the Orders is meant to be similiar but unstated, or it's meant to be absent.
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    Neither are the things you wrote....
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    Don't you mean Portuguese?

    Presumably the Guardians follow the other Orders, that's part of their mission to watch the others....
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    I think that's the point. To The Strongest didn't have the various Great Cults attcking each other either....
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    I explicitly said...





    The lack of Seers is quite odd....
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    That'd be waste of space in a not very long chapter. Also, it pretty explicitly points out the differences....
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    The Mutupos (the local Orders) are interesting in that they seem to reinforce the idea that the Orders are social roles first rather that philosophies.
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  • Michael
    replied to Mutapan Empire!
    It's pretty cool, though the crossover stuff with Mummy is really fascinating to me. It does a really deep dive into how the two interact. I really like that apparently Magi can mess around with pillars and sekhem as well, there's no arbitrary template roadblock....
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  • Michael
    replied to How paranoid are your mages?
    I admit, I've tended to largely ignore the issue. Getting your Acanthus to spam divination spells is pretty normal, but that's more about it being useful, rather than as threat detection. Mostly, there's just not been much reason to be paranoid in my settings.

    Now contra to that, the players are always very paranoid. Maybe that's the reason; if your players are expecting to be suddenly attacked, it's more interesting to have them repeatedly overreact to non-threats.
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  • Honestly, I'd say that just makes them seem weird and sociopathic. The assholeish thing for the Pentacle to do would be to condemn the legacy but do little to police it....
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  • I just remembered, Poison is the Shadow Name of an Arrow in the book.
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  • I think they're a bit more conflicted. Some of them do believe that, but it seems that plenty of them also believe that war is a sad necessity.

    Also, their ideology incorporates the idea that not all conflicts are good. That's what their post-war caucus decided....
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Michael
Michael
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Last Activity: Today, 12:14 PM
Joined: 11-01-2013
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