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  • Among Mortals and perhaps DBs, sure.

    If you're fighting Celestial PCs and can't even ignore Onslaught, you would probably do well to spend that action killing yourself, to save everyone's time.

    (I'm kidding. If an enemy NPC commits suicide for no apparent reason mid-battle, the group would still spend 1-3 hours trying to figure out why, so it wouldn't really save any time.)...
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  • It didn't do "nothing," however.

    If the Butcher Baron of the Eleven Glaives was going to attack, but because Pernicious Clarity took a delay action, BBEG is now making a choice other than what would have been optimal as a direct result of PC's actions. It's no different than if PC had Disengaged, and BBEG opted to attempt a Rush rather than attacking empty air (and wasting your action attacking nothingness is usually a better choice than attempting a Clash unprepared), or if they changed targets because someone took a Full Defense. The same logic applies if BBEG Aims,...
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  • Vance has noted that this falls into a grey area, to which every resolution is a house rule.

    So what you do at your table comes down to the sorts of arguments being made in this thread: how flexible do you want people to be at adapting to the unexpected? Is it more dramatic to let people do what they want as often as possible, or is it more dramatic for errors in judgement to be a little more swingy?

    (In practice, I might be tempted to just make the ruling which benefits the PCs most when this first comes up, make a note of it, and let be the law of the land unless it...
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  • The vagueness of Range Bands will definitely influence how you see this, it's true - when I look at that picture, I see people who could not possibly make melee attacks against eachother without first needing to break away from their current opponent, which sounds like Short Range to me.

    That's clearly subjective, but I do maintain that Exalted groupfights work better (if nothing else, they test more skills, and are therefore less-totally dominated by a single focused build) if you mess around with range bands a bit. The bigger those bands are, the crazier things get when someone...
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  • To be fair, Lunars and even DBs also get scenelong Defend Other. Most likely, every type of supernatural (including First Circle Demons and other "mook" supernaturals) can do that. But, ah, I don't want to derail things into my ever-growing enmity with Defend Other. I suppose I should make a different thread for that.

    That can happen, but when STing, I recommend against laying fights out this way. PCs probably don't travel crammed close enough together they could all fit under the same blanket, nor do enemies, so it doesn't make a ton of sense for most fights to start...
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  • I dunno that I would agree that a group fight automatically means multiple reasonable targets are in range, especially in a world where Defend Other can make some of them potentially invulnerable.

    It also gets odd for Battlegroups, which attack everyone every time, anyway. This is one of the reasons why I believe it should require a charm to clash BGs.

    But, overall, I agree with the principle: never attack into a Delay. I suppose that's the idea which started this thread, though, so it's not a very hot take now.

    Generally, Ask The Devs answers about Clash...
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  • Chejop Kejak
    replied to Exalted: Arena
    Plus, mechanically speaking, lots of strong combat characters a Resolve of around 4 (6-7 with excellencies), and if you win with a Threaten action or the like, they'll have to spend WP.

    Not a bad idea.
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  • Chejop Kejak
    replied to Exalted: Arena
    Yeah, Simple Charms are also good. In a teamfight, it sometimes makes sense to Full Defense whilst your allies advance their portions of the battle, but that's obviously a losing plan one-on-one. Disengage, if you need an action which still makes them spend motes twice this round. If you're leading a Battlegroup, maybe try Rally For Numbers (ugh, that name), but I'm less sure of that, since I wouldn't let someone clash a BG unless they had a Charm which explicitly allowed that.

    Mostly, just never attack into it unless you're REALLY sure that you have the advantage - they've already...
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  • Chejop Kejak
    replied to Exalted: Arena
    Yeah, I would definitely argue that, while clashes are overtuned, it's Defend Other that breaks the game. Vance has said elsewhere (though I believe it was in logs of a campaign he was running, so not in an official capacity) that two people Defend Othering each other causes the universe to unravel. That would be a "no" on using that strategy, but also a scathing indictment of how nutso that particular action is. One of the most frustrating things when running fights for this thread is not getting to just implement basic fixes, such as not making a fundamental combat trick throw space-time...
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  • Chejop Kejak
    replied to Exalted: Arena
    Oh, I have plans for a flight + ranged grapple build, have no doubt. It seems pretty good, because Exalted inexplicably made falling damage the deadliest of natural hazards when it's totally harmless in most cinematic action fiction... of course, assuming they cannot just negate it with a moderate Athletics roll, which the book implies but doesn't expand on. But that's for later.

    And cat Lunars don't care a ton about wound penalties. They're not exactly Berserkers, but the worst thing about a wound penalty is the defense hit, and they're super immune to that part.
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  • Chejop Kejak
    replied to Exalted: Arena
    Basically.

    My last go around saw an Essence 2 Lunar win against 3 DBs, but it was very, very close. She had a pretty specialized build which is really well-suited for that kind of fight, too.

    I haven't tested it (though I probably should), but I feel like 3 Essence 2 DBs should be pretty doable for a number of Essence 2 Lunars (and, by extension, Essence 2 Solars without a relevant supernal). As DLM says, Essence 3 DB is a huge power upgrade, so it's no great surprise that those charms have been the most pivotal DB abilities in each fight - mostly Melee clash charms,...
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  • Chejop Kejak
    replied to Exalted: Arena
    DLM used Smashfists, so you're probably thinking of my earlier fight against three Blood Apes, where I did indeed use the cat with no Artifacts or mutations. This time, I've been using Claws Mutation + Claws of the Silver Moon for Light Weapon stats.

    Since I don't use stunts in my fights (those exist to tilt the game in favor of PCs, so it's not surprising when someone who gets them wins against bad odds), that means 19 dice. Which is good, but this fight's DB melee person is rolling about on par with that in a decisive clash, and does better in a withering one. And they're not...
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  • Chejop Kejak
    replied to Exalted: Arena
    The short version is: it's not about whether they can win, but how much they must spend to compete.

    The Lunar build in question is a "murderkitty," pretty similar to what DrLoveMonkey used earlier (the main difference is mine being a No-Moon, which is admittedly a non-trivial difference in this fight). After I ran it twice with one close Lunar win and one close Lunar loss, I went back to check why those results were so different from the blowout I remembered, and saw it was mostly down to DLM's murderkitty running out of motes a few rounds in. There's a few reasons for...
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  • Chejop Kejak
    replied to Exalted: Arena
    Short update on this: after a few runs, it seems to me that it's a pretty even fight between an optimal Essence 2 cat Lunar and three Essence 3 shikari if you CANNOT use Clashes in reply to attacks against someone you are Defend Other-ing, and a solid DB win if you can. Whatever else we have learned from this thread, it bears repeating: however good Clashes look, they're probably better. Also, Defend Other just plain should not exist as written.

    I suppose I should cut out the middle Exalt and run it against a different DB lineup, without any Melee users. Maybe Water Dragon, Earth...
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Chejop Kejak
Chejop Kejak
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Last Activity: 01-15-2021, 08:04 PM
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