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  • Yeah but did we need such a big chapter when they only appear at the end? When more relevant antagonist are missing updates? No we didnt, but by now i am tired of this argument and people so insecure of their game/taste they feel they must "defend" their game from criticism of any kind in a thread about PERSONAL TASTES and miss the difference between reducing and removing. So i am out of here....
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    Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 07-20-2017, 10:06 AM.

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  • Then thats why i list it as thing i dislike about the forsaken book. Too much uneeded info on idigam, too little info on host and pure...
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  • Thats what i have been saying, idigam are only gonna appear at the end. Too much wordcount wasted on them when the antagonist that are gonna appear more lack material...
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  • Sure, its what i ended up doing but its still something i dont like from WTF.



    Except Requiem did it and Apocalypse too. How does a new vampire learn the ropes? Either his Sire teach him or his covenant (which is also a temptation to join one).

    How a cub learn the ropes in Apocalypse? With the central social structure that is the Sept, in it there is a position of Den Father/Mother whose job is to teach new cubs and following education will continue with the local elders of the cubs tribe or falling that auspice. As for conflict between packs/interest the...
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  • Whats the difference? You make a rank 5 fetish but it wont do anything until you put a Rank 5 spirit in it. Either the spirit wanna go into the fetish willingly (which is incredibly rare), or one forces him into which is a herculean task or negotiate which is gonna cost you a lot.

    And that not even getting on what effect on the Shadow politic/landscape of the equivalent of a City father (i dont remember right now if those are rank 4 or 5) is remove from the shadow.

    All of that for a underwelming fetish. Useful, yes but not worth the trouble....
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  • I never mentioned xp cost, what are you talking about? I said that the cost of getting a five dot fetish is normally putting a rank 5 spirit in it, and that the benefit of getting a rank 5 fetish doesnt cover the work/risk....
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  • Never said that they were bragging but as explanation goes on how to make my own gifts, its all boils down to "use the equivalent of a 1e level 3 gift" which is pretty squalid if they expects me create all the missing gifts myself from 1st.



    For example a 5 dot fetish weapons given as an example: sap wp or health (quantity not determined) and has 8s again/rote quality.

    It is a mighty weapon but not one that warranties messing with a rank 5 spirit. Is too little for such a big cost....
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  • Overall i like 2nd but i do have some complains, some related to the book themselves and others to the mechanics.

    Setting/mechanics things i dislike:
    • I dislike how the packs are now to include Wolfblooded and humans. In theory/fuff side i dont have a problem with it but in actual play i found it to be a NPC bloat, having to think humans and wolf blooded to everysingle NPC pack puts to much pressure on the DM on both balance and NPC management. For example i am using the Rockies source book which freatures 11 packs + the pc pack and most of them have at least 4 members, when i try
    ...
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    Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 07-18-2017, 06:21 PM.

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  • As i said, Outcast aside, how the Ronin are handle by other books. Outcast made it seems that Ronin are declared by the drop of a hat. When that doesnt follow other books or basic logic.



    That mostly because they suffer from the all decker/no decker at all problem. You cant really, without taking liberties with the setting, run a mix pack of tribe garous and ronins. Either everyone is a Ronin and one is running a pride/shame game. Or one is running a everyones in a tribe game....
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  • Well for example, except in Outcast you dont become a Ronin for bullshit reasons.

    Is not a "piss an elder off, a ronin you become" or even maintaining your religion. You really have to screw up to become a Ronin. The former might warrant a loss of renown/a duel to the death but declaring you a Ronin as punishment goes way beyond that.

    Using the example of the Outcast book, a Garou that believes the Veil should be dispose off is not ground enough to declare him a Ronin. He can voice his belief once or twice and depending on how he goes with it he might get beaten...
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  • LokiRavenSpeak
    replied to You Know What I Hate MK I
    Supposedly the new showrunner has a 5 year long set up plan for the series. I love the first 2 seasons of Matt Smith as 11 but after that it felt that moffat tried to sell us he had it planned all along when he clearly was making up shit as he went....
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  • I agree. I have said before that to me this is the essence of Apocalypse. The clash of moderm day value vs old. And the question what does it mean to be a good guy.



    I also agree, there needs to be some hope for the awfulness to have any meaning. I dislike the concept of "you are X tribe and you have to think Y way" for PCs (some exceptions not withstanding), i would never presents players with happy-inclusive garou nation but they sure as hell they can change it to be that (whoever little that change might be). Its also why i dislike 40k as rp
    ...
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    Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 07-16-2017, 04:05 PM.

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  • I think, it not being canon was one of the changes mandated by NWW....
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  • I dont think thats true. When W20 was released there wasnt NuWW in existence yet. Same with MET: Vampire so they didnt had to get their material approved.

    At the time of MET: Werewolf, i did require NuWW revision & approval of them. Same with the last W20 release "Shattered Dreams" was revisioned, changes required from NuWW and then approved....
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  • Not it wouldnt, the rest of the PC party wanted to extract the Ithaeur ASAP and not hunt a vampire. The ithaeur wanted to kill vampire because fun.




    Also wrong. The setting as presented (Hunting grounds: The rockies) had NPC pack Black Moon Extreme killing various vampire and thus Vampire society already alerted. Had the vampire flee, the rest of the PC pack would grab the Ithaeur by the back of the neck, drag him away and forbid her from talking to BMX because they are a bad influence for everything. The vampire hunt would have been abandoned (as only the Ithaeur...
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    Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 07-15-2017, 08:11 AM.

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  • LokiRavenSpeak
    replied to Skin Dancer Homeland
    An giant ashtray. *ba dum dish*...
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  • Here is the thing, if he is so good a DMing, then why resort to the most cliche, cheap and railroady for a path that is largely unnecessary? If this is a scenario to test the mechanics then the players chossing to bail is a moot point, one assumes that if a gather my friends to test this mechanics in the scenarios we would do it. But if they wrote the pregen PCs one has to play with they might as well put some motivation for the PC to not leave.

    But to be fair its a minor complain. I was responding to a question of whether "Lupines are gonna eat you as soon as you leave the city"...
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    Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 07-14-2017, 11:22 PM.

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  • Wow okay let me clarify this before it goes out of hand. I am NOT Accusing or dismissing people who like the event as sychopants. What i tried to convey was that a unfortunate big part of larp is about the st ability of building echo chambers and managing egos. And that the success of erickson in managing an event is not an indication of his ability of producing good mechanics/setting.

    In the same vein the organizing the anual plumber convention doesnt necesarily mean one is a great plumber. It just mean one is good at organizing events...
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  • Not all people who think Werewolf is "furry captain planet" will hold that position regardless of evidence to the contrary. I know i didn't, the game put me off for years because people keep referring to it as "Furry Captain Planet" and because of reading actual plays/people talking about how they ran the game which boiled down to "Furry Captain Planet" . The only reason i gave it a chance was because W20 awesome character portraits with the actual text being deeper than that and showed nuanced of a deeper game....when handled correctly. The setting as presented now?...
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    Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 07-14-2017, 02:05 PM. Reason: Clarifications

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  • Its Erickson we are talking about here so i am gonna bet the later. The man is mockingly called Dracula for a reason.

    As for the Impergrium. The way i see it the plot point is not about bringing back the impergrium but instead separating the Garou nation into two faction. The good tribes and the asshole tribes. Putting the impergrium back introduces the problem of lifting the veil one way or another and i doubt the wanna go that way for the now ONE world of darkness.

    Instead using the excuse of the second impergrium to separate the nation it makes things more morally...
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    Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 07-14-2017, 08:48 AM.

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LokiRavenSpeak
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