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  • I'd say they're the materialist guys and the Traditions are the idealist guys. Both can be good or bad....
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  • I'm glad you mentioned this because I think that Shadows of New York has a pretty good example of a touchstone (I know this diverges from your own point, but you reminded me)....
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  • Okay I'm convinced just let them have fetters instead.



    Yeah, I agree with you that living people are harder to explain with some of the other lineages. More options for what a touchstone can be would probably be useful. I mean beyond having a corpse as one through a loresheet.



    Yeah, I know. I remember when they were one of the two named Sabbat clans with hardly any information about them at all in the first edition. Maybe I need to read the V5 Chicago by Night but right now it's hard to see what would drive the Lasombra to swallow every ounce...
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  • Obviously presenting the books verbatim in a game isn't gonna be a thing. Like I doubt any Wraith game I ever run or play will get into philosophical discussions on the delineations between hekatonkhire and onceborns or onceborns and neverborns, but those distinctions are gonna be what the book says unless I have a better and most importantly cooler idea.
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  • Resplendent Fire
    replied to You Know What I Hate MK I
    I enjoy formulating a good argument. I don't enjoy when it becomes personal, and I admit I sometimes make it personally esp when I shouldn't so I'm not blameless.
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  • Anyone wealthy enough can buy their own luxury submarine these days, but that's in the realm of a couple billion dollars or so.
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  • The Hecata have the clan (former clan?) that was most fixated on mortal family, although not in any remotely healthy way. It's not that far of a reach for the Giovanni, Pisanob, Dunsirn, or Putanesca especially. I agree it's really weird for the Harbingers of Skulls and the Nagaraja. I'd be seriously tempted to expand what touchstones can be just to accommodate them. I'm not really sure where the Lamia, Cappadocians, or Samedi would fall in this, but with expanded touchstone options that shouldn't matter too much.



    I agree with this. I think it would have been a better...
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    Last edited by Resplendent Fire; Yesterday, 11:07 AM.

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  • Resplendent Fire
    replied to You Know What I Hate MK I
    People who don't want to formulate an argument, and so lie about those they disagree with, claiming perhaps that they didn't support their statements with citations or quotes, even though such people did in fact do this.

    Pretty amazing that people can just go on the internet and type whatever nonsense they want and have a reasonable expectation that someone will believe them....
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  • Stasis means not changing. Progress means changing. They're literally contradictory. That progress might be idealized as toward a static state at some point in the future, but they'll never reach it. It'd run counter to the actual paradigm they're trying to enforce. Science is in a constant state of change, as new knowledge is discovered and older knowledge is sometimes found to be wrong or more likely incomplete. Some factors are practically unsolvable within the Technocracy's paradigm, or at least appear so now, but will that still be the case in ten years, twenty? The scientific knowledge they're...
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  • They also do science, meaning that they're committed to expanding what's known and understood about the universe and advancing technology of all kinds on the basis of that. The Precepts of Damian do not even begin to encompass their work.

    Anyway, they can't both enforce stasis and actually do progress at the same time. And the primary thing they oppose is the supernatural. That's the unknown they want to eliminate. Not just the supernatural but the possibility of it. And that is something that's probably fundamentally impossible. Much like eliminating gravity or light.

    ...
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    Last edited by Resplendent Fire; Yesterday, 10:24 AM.

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  • I think in V20 that had to do with creating an homage to all previous editions without much reference to the metaplot.
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  • In Shadows of New York, it's pretty clear Lasombra aren't trusted or given much power, and the demand for one Lasombra's destruction for each Lasombra who joins is definitely punitive. I know in VRev Lasombra Antitribu had joined the Camarilla, but the ex-Sabbat looking to shelter in the Camarilla do not have an easy time. I'm not sure the ones who were already in the Camarilla are having an easy time at this point.
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  • Children of the Night also had Pariah from the Vampire-Werewolf crossover story set in Chicago, and the Technocracy played a huge role in the Week of Nightmares. I honestly can't think of why Xaviar's history wasn't fully taken into account, even considering that VRev minimized crossovers. Justin would have known it for sure even if the writer didn't....
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  • alt.games.whitewolf - it was a newsgroup for White Wolf games, which at the time of its creation were Ars Magica, Vampire, I think maybe Werewolf?...
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  • How many did you have to collect in order to turn in for a prize?...
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  • Every line to some extent contradicted the stated cosmology in most if not all of the other lines. This was a point of constant discourse on the vaunted "agww" newsgroup back in the 90s. Mage and Werewolf are directly contradictory in ways that are quite important to each line.


    Hunter mentions the Ebon Dragon and the Scarlet Queen, creating a lore link with Kindred of the East.

    So Demon mentions Caine and Enoch, creating a lore link with Vampire: The Masquerade.

    Seems to me both are fine.



    Kindred of the East, like...
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    Last edited by Resplendent Fire; 12-01-2020, 10:44 PM.

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  • Resplendent Fire
    replied to LGBT III thread
    Elliot coming out is wonderful. I'm glad he's able to do this.
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  • Clans aren't sports teams. I don't think clan is as unimportant as said in the Revised Vampire Player's Guide, but I do think that assigning a single personality and set of goals to an entire clan is downright weird.
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  • Do you really want a huge digression into reiterating the Book of Nod in a game that's not actually about vampires? When Vampire is right there and you can refer to that? And do you really want to shift goalposts here? Your original comment was that it doesn't even mention Enoch, which it does.

    And the Second City is out of scope for DtF because it likely took place after the Fallen were imprisoned in the Abyss.



    I'm talking about how the White Wolf games were developed in the 90s and early 2000s. If you personally feel that the Baali are important to Demon,...
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  • Yeah, I was active on agww from the early 90s onward, and that first paragraph is incorrect. I know that a lot (not all, or necessarily even most) fans who themselves tended to focus primarily or even exclusively on a single line tended to view the freelancers and line developers as similar, but this isn't true, and it's not a fair characterization. Especially with regards to core books which get more attention and development time.

    That fans on agww believed things about the line developers and freelancers doesn't actually mean those perceptions were accurate. By and large they were...
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Resplendent Fire
Resplendent Fire
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