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  • Thaumaturgy is a modern form of blood sorcery created by the Tremere. Or that's how it used to be. It doesn't make sense to me that these ancient vampires have it as a disclipline. Perhaps it's a case of bad wording. They should have simply called it blood sorcery or used a more ancient form of blood sorcery like Quietus, Dur An Ki, Akhu, Sadhana etc.
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  • True. The early methuselahs were weaker stat wise. Mithras was pretty much made out to be the most powerful vampire out there (not counting antes) but his stats didn't support that.

    But in V5, I suppose the beckoning is the easy answer for this mess. They are resisting the beckoning, hence they are weaker. It's not a satisfying anwer but it's an answer nonetheless....
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  • I agree the Methuselah's have lost their wow factor in V5. It's hard to take Mithras seriously with those stats, when he consideres himself a god. But still within the current system it's not that bad. Atleast he has discliplines he should have had in the past. I mean he didn't even have Auspex back in the day. How can you survive for millennia, when you have the senses of a cow?

    Ironically, his overall stats are higher then what they were in V20. That just shows how heavily understatted he was.
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    Last edited by blackshade; 01-31-2020, 08:48 PM.

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  • blackshade
    started a topic Mithras stats in Fall of London

    Mithras stats in Fall of London


    Strength 5,
    Dexterity 5, Stamina 4; Charisma 5,
    Manipulation 5, Composure 3;
    Intelligence 4, Wits 5, Resolve 5

    Health 7, Willpower 8

    Athletics 4, Brawl (Grappling) 5, Melee (Swords) 4,
    Stealth 3, Survival (War) 4;
    Etiquette 3, Insight (Emotions) 5,
    Intimidation (Interrogation) 5,
    Leadership (Command) 5,
    Performance 3, Persuasion (Cult) 5,
    Subterfuge 5; Academics
    (History) 4, Awareness 3,
    Occult (Mithraic Mysteries)...
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  • blackshade
    replied to Chimerstry in V5
    it seems more likely to me that it will become an amalgam of Obfuscate.
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  • Fair enough. But if he was born around 3000 bc as you believe. How do you think he would stand against the Antediluvains born around around 8000 BC? 5000 years is a lot. If his embrace date is indeed 3000 bc and you disregard the story about Apep, he woud have to be considered one of their weaker ante's ( even considering diminishing returns on age). But everything written about him makes him sound like one of the more powerful ante's. The Gehenna book (i know its no longer canon) outright mentions him as one of the more powerful Antediluvians. If i remember correctly he seemed to be leading the...
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    Last edited by blackshade; 01-24-2020, 06:51 PM.

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  • Troile's embrace date does seems suspicious and Moloch manipulating instead of downright dominating her makes sense aswell, but still for an ante to allow her self to be used (for whatever reason) by a Methuselah (even one as powerful as Moloch) doesn't bode well for her chances in the game of Jyhad. Could you imagine Saulot or Tzimisce being used by another?

    About Sutekh. His embrace date is suspicious aswell. He is probably as old as the rest of them. I don't believe he was embraced as a fourth gen. Hell if you believe the Setites, he is the original vampire or even a god.. Which...
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    Last edited by blackshade; 01-24-2020, 03:02 PM.

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  • That's my point. It should be the way you wrote it and i imagine in most cases it is.

    But the comment i was responding to didnt make it sound like Saulot got the better of Absimiliard but basically made him his bitch because he is that much more powerful. So the end result would most likely be the same each time they cross paths. But like i said i havent read Transylvania Chronicles IV, so i really dont know how much more powerful Saulot was made out to be in that book....
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    Last edited by blackshade; 01-24-2020, 01:36 PM.

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  • Good post. I haven't read Transilvania Chronicles IV. This does make him sound weak( relatively speaking ofcourse). Honeslty it sounds like bad writing to me. No ante should be used as a pawn by another antediluvian.

    About Troile. Hard to believe she took down Brujah in single combat. Seems very unlikely to me, she probably had help or it was a ambush killing (or was this mentioned somewhere?).

    Also the wiki mentions she was embraced around 3000 bc (relatively young) but i am not sure how accurate that is and lets not forget its generally assumed she was under the influence...
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    Last edited by blackshade; 01-20-2020, 01:51 PM.

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  • Man you are making me feel bad for the guy . I take it Ishtar is the Toreador antedilluvian? But the orignal toxic relationship was Caine and Lilith maybe even Adam and Lilith....
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