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[Trollroot]

He does not really need massive Dominate. Something fairly standard and the generation to apply it to 4th generation kindered would do. And he may not have succeeded in what he was trying, though Termeres chosing his body above more loyal Tremere is interesting.



Goratrix does not need to have done it all himself. He certainly needed Gratiano on his side, and apparently there were others involved as well. A 4rth or 5th generation Assamite, and who knows who else. He had access to resources. And I expect all the Antediluvians he Tremere knew about were researched. (And...

[Trollroot]

My Ravnos are a bloodline, the descendants of Ravana. The 4th generation who became a Yama King. The compulsion towards sin is though to be because their blood is a bit closer to the infernal. In Europe they claimed to be the dominant clan of vast India, but they lied. It was basically a Prester John letter con. The bloodline is extinct in India. The actual Indian Ravnos do not have Chimestry in-clan, although many of the older ones know it well as an out-of-clan power. They are much more like the Ventrue, and do in fact mutter about the Ventrue having no Antediluvian and isn't that convenient....

[Trollroot]

Someone did something with Dominate. It may have been Lasombra, it may have been someone else, but that someone was at least 4th generation. Possibly lower.

My headcanon is that it was Goratrix. He had the means, motive, opportunity and an established pattern of this kind of action. My headcanon is that when he fled from Tremere, he decided he needed Antediluvian status himself. He was one of the inner council that researched multiple antediluvians havens and defenses before the Tremere decided to target Saulot. It is unlikly that they did not do a lot of research on the one Antediluvian...

[Trollroot]

Where is the bit about Dis Pater being summonable by any Giovanni?

As far as knowledge and influence goes, its not beyond an Antediluvian with Bane Mummies. There is also the notion that Set was slain by Osiris around the time of Christ or so, at which point he would have become a wraith semipermanently. The thing with the Setites is, though, that they have been feuding with the mummies for ten thousand years, and some of that have been afterlife based.




Uh...what? They got to take down an actual Antediluvian hostile to Set. Thats a huge Jyhad win,...

[Trollroot]

We know Antediluvians vary in power. Saulot was described OOC as vastly more powerful than Absimilliard. I find that fairly reasonable. Over fifteen thousand years, even small differences in interest for esoteric issues and philosophy will snowball quite a bit. Someone with a deep interest in mystical matters and powers like Saulot will learn far more than someone like Absimilliard.

So I am thinking that the Antediluvians with more of an interest in such matters probably have picked up quite a bit of knowledge. Cappadocius, Saulot, Tzimisce, Set. Haquim. The rest, not so much.

[Trollroot]

I did that before Kindred of the East was published, sorry. And I never got into KotE, so to me, the eastern vampires remained mysterious and unknown.

(Recent discoveries have shown that archaic humans were mostly pretty stationary, and may have lived next to deeply diverged peoples for very long times. Europe was an exception because the peninsula was subject to extinctions when the Ice Age worsened. Its made me think that the even more territorial Kindred may have followed a similar pattern outside of periods of turmoil, and generally only moved when peoples did.). Until the era...

[Trollroot]

I see "Yama King" as an ecological niche more than a splat.

Any supernatural with sufficient power and the opportunity to feed on the suffering of souls can become one. If he or she is tough enough to claim turf in the Hells. Kindred may have an advantage because being parasitic on suffering is natural to them. But the relevant ecosystem only exists in the east, so the opportunity is truly rare. Saulots teachers may have seen how suited powerful kindred was to this role. Saulot may have too.

[Trollroot]

The reason I guessed that Dis Pater is or was an alias of Set is that the whole thing was very Setite. Tempt the original merchant family with riches, then give them secrets of necromancy that would tempt an Antediluvian into lowering his caution. (And those much have been deep and valuable secrets no matter who Dis Pater was. Hoarding such things for temptation is very Setite.)

Then Cappadocious embraces Augustus, but not in person. His vitae is carried in a jar to the waiting Augustus -by Lazarus!, who at this point was totally compromised by the Setites. And who were said to have...

[Trollroot]

He did. Another theory of the diablerie of Saulot is this: Saulot, going into torpor in a lightly defended have close to the Tzimisce homelands was a trap -for the Tzimisce. He did intend to get diablerized by a 4th generation kindred, but a Tzimisce. As a 3rd generation master of the soul-discipline of Valeren, once connected to the Eldest through the Blood, he may have expected to be able to devour the monster through his bond with his clan. He may have had a home advantage against the master of flesh in a soul to soul battle. Samiels physical destruction of the Eldest had failed so a more fundamental...