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[Trollroot]

Consider another option. Assamite sorcery may be older than Koldunism. It is certainly much older than the concept of the "Middle east". It will at least go back to the Mesopotamian city-states. Marduk and Tanith, king Shulgi of Ur and Sennacherib. Sumerian civilization started in the fifth millennium BC. Just on the other side of the Caucasus and Zardos mountains was a complicated patchwork of peoples and nations. This area, towards the Pontic-Caspian steppe is possibly where Baba Yaga was embraced in 5000 BC. Further north you have hunter-gatherers. Which may or may not fit with her...

[Trollroot]

Well. Look for more Ventrue stuff then On the other hand, I remember him saying White Wolf should not have forums.

[Trollroot]

I never really liked the idea that Lasombra was totally successful in its plans when Gratiano tried to do a coup. If an Antediluvian achieves its Jyhad goal, or at least what must be a major aim, I feel there should be some kind of notable repercussions. Unless its only goal was to drop out of the public eye with a cover story, and the whole resto of it was of little concern. (For an Antediluvian, it had been extremely visible for a very long time. And with a know location. Very different from the modus operandi of the rest of the clan. It may have gotten antsy about its visibility after the diablerie...

[Trollroot]

Its a good point about the curses potentially being flaws, but how common is the knowledge about that in-game?




"Caitiff" is both a mechanical game designation and an in-game social class. The two often overlap, but not always.

In game materials we've seen a Ventrue who never developed a blood preference, got told to leave and never claim Ventrue lineage. A Nosferatu who did not turn ugly but still was allowed to live in the warren. Both of which knew their sires and line. We've got a 5300 years old Caitiff that went head to head with an...

[Trollroot]

So you arrive in a new city. You are recently embraced and do not know your sire. But if you frenzy you get animal features.
Or as above, but you are hideously ugly and deformed with a zero appearance. Et cetera. Derangement, fugue state in the presence of beauty, limited feeding preference, painful bite, casts no reflection.

At what point are you obviously a Gangrel etc with an unknown sire, and where do you get called "Caitiff"? Is it if your clan considers it close enough?

And in reverse, if you are not particularly good with your clan disciplines and...

[Trollroot]

As a digression, I've normally run it that you can't be Blood Bound to your own vitae. So you can drink freely from your childer without risking a Bond. Grandchilder etc. takes more drinks. It means that its practically possible for some kindred with Methuselahs Thirst and some humanity to exists, and gives a reason for the older kindred to sire occasionally and keep an eye on their offspring in case they need to pop out of torpor for some reason.

[Trollroot]

Vestgeir, the Ravnos with the Scandinavian name. Troile. Osiris/Khetamon. Nergal and Rayzeel, did Saulot actually embrace two separate singer slaves? All the really ancient things. The Stoneman. Lasombra. The really old things fascinate me, like the new stuff that just came out about the Atlantic Megalith Builders.

Anyway, to me it seems really clear that Haquim embraced Ur-Shulgi, and that Ur-Shulgi has been or was Baali for quite some time. Haquim is the Antediluvian with all the powers related to blood, and who embraces a new bloodline with new clan disciplines on a whim. It seems...