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  • - There were enough necromancers to have feuding factions in the past, and (notably) enough to have different bloodlines in different sects, who tried to kill each other off.
    - Part of the deal when the Hecata formed involved the Samedi and Harbingers getting more prestige and influence; most older Hecata are Harbingers now, with the oldest Giovanni gone.
    - Even if they decide to lay low to avoid the Hecata, independent necromancers are contending with the Second Inquisition without anyone having their back.



    - The bloodlines' cultures all still exist, like...
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  • With V20 rules, all necromancers start on the Sepulchre path with very few exceptions, which means everyone's necromantic powerset is the same until you've invested quite a lot of xp. If you ignore that rule, though:

    You could have a Giovanni who deals with ghosts and the Shroud (Sepulchre, Ash, Cenotaph), a Samedi who deals with flesh and bone (Bone, Mortuus, Thanatosis), a Harbinger who does scrying and divination (Auspex and rituals), a Rossellini or Puttanesca who's not a necromancer but has a lot of Potence, a Milliner or Dunsirn who's not a necromancer but has money and influences...
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  • This wasn't how I interpreted the Hecata writeup in Cults. My interpretation was that the necromancers were banding together to present a unified front, and to not undercut each other. Now they have a monopoly and can sell their services to all the sects—most Camarilla cities, Anarch cities, and Sabbat cities alike will have a smallish Hecata contingent who can either accomplish what you need, or know a guy (who knows a guy etc) who can. And their reputation as the only remaining independent clan works in their favor there.

    In other words, it's not that every electrician moved to...
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  • That's Requiem.

    In Masquerade, the Beast is a specific, individual entity that's fuelled by your base desires and above all else loves to fuck you over. It theoretically wants to get blood and avoid fire, but it's often worse at that than you are. The big theme is loss of control; if the Beast takes over, it's almost exclusively a bad thing that will hurt you, so you need to keep it contained or find ways to negotiate with it (such as Instinct paths) or else it'll ruin everything.

    In Requiem, the Beast is an individual entity the same way Freud's id or Jung's "shadow"...
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  • Mechanically, if you're going off V5 RAW, they all have Auspex Fortitude Necromancy and the Giovanni flaw. Nice and easy to convert; not much adjustment needed.

    If you're using my homebrew version, you'll need to convert the new flaw (blocked by wards and abjurations), but the spreads are still easy to work with. Give the Giovanni Fort instead of Potence and the rest stays the same.
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  • Nitpick: you've counted Koldunism twice, and missed a few of the obscure ones like Bardo that nobody cares about.

    If I had the chance to overhaul the system, I'd also personally separate sorcery out from disciplines entirely. The Tremere learn Thaumaturgy and the Giovanni learn Necromancy, not because it's in their blood, but because they have structures in place to teach it (and to keep it secret from outsiders). That cuts the number down a bit more.

    The end result, of course, is that certain clans have unique disciplines and others don't. (Which has always been the...
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  • I agree with you on most of this. (I.e. I think Mytherceria badly needs a merger and Oblivion doesn't work merged.) I just support several of V5's other mergers as well.

    In particular, Serpentis being entirely The Discipline Of Snakes doesn't mesh with the lore of the Setites, who didn't go all-in on the snake thematics until Christianity became popular. If disciplines were actually set in stone by Caine or whatever, how would a discipline's powerset completely change in a mere 2000 years to match a particular cult's branding? The only powers from Serpentis that don't thematically...
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  • Mytherceria is the first example I always point to for how V20 has too many distinct disciplines that really should be merged. It's just Auspex with a touch of Dementation and some fae flavor.

    Back in first edition, Malkavians were thematically connected to the fae; perhaps bringing that connection back would help. Since Malks are much more usable in your average VtM game than Weirdlings....
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    Last edited by Draconis; 07-26-2020, 12:29 PM.

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  • Draconis
    replied to [V20] Thaumaturgy - Tremere
    Huh, interesting. I've never seen those rules applied to Conjuring (though I think it balances the path much better if they are).

    Would you also apply those to the Chimerstry powers that make your illusions real? If I remember right, there's both an elder discipline and a combo discipline that make an illusion affect the world as it normally would, instead of just the flat bashing damage of Horrid Reality (which is a really lame capstone but that's another matter)....
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  • Draconis
    replied to More Contracts?
    My money's on a new Seeming with the new Regalia as favored. Maybe a proper 2e update of the Grimms from DE1?
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  • Draconis
    replied to Making Quietus not suck
    Random musings:

    So, my biggest issues with Quietus have always been that the first power has no thematic connection to the others (as mentioned), and that the powers feel…redundant. Turn your blood into poison, turn your blood into better poison, turn your blood into more versatile poison…

    Some other clan-specific disciplines have the same issues (like Vicissitude, which is three powers that all do the same thing to different extents, and two unrelated Protean powers). And I'm not sure it's something that can be entirely fixed within V20's paradigm. Maybe a good model...
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  • A good houserule, honestly. I don't like disciplines where the lower levels become obsolete when you get higher ones.

    With your permission, I might write this up as a power for V5, because I can think of several characters who would prefer it over the existing level-one Obfuscate powers (V20 "invisible as long as you stand still" and DAV20 "sphere of magical silence")....
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  • Draconis
    replied to Explain the Cacophony
    Also, if you're coming from Masquerade, a big difference in Requiem 2e is that the Beast truly is part of you.

    In Masquerade, the Beast is a mindless monster that fucks you over due to not caring at all about your goals or desires. (Let's murder someone for fun! Oh, that was your touchstone? Oops.) It has no subtlety and no understanding of goals deeper than "stay alive right now, get blood right now, kill things right now"; in many cases, it's actually worse at accomplishing these things than a normal person would be, because it can't comprehend any strategies beyond "attack...
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    Last edited by Draconis; 07-19-2020, 01:31 PM.

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  • Draconis
    replied to Explain the Cacophony
    The Beast....
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  • The OWoD Camarilla are a global conspiracy dedicated to convincing the world that vampires don't exist through any means necessary. They have a feudal structure designed to be eternal; they're still ruled by some of the original founders of the group, and that's unlikely to change any time soon; for example, they've banned any and all modern technology in a sloppy attempt to cover up for how they don't understand anything new.

    The CofD Camarilla was something different. They were the vampiric counterpart of the Roman Empire, the largest-scale vampiric organization in recorded history,...
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  • I think the competition comes less from other Tremere houses (since I agree it seems unlikely for multiple houses to exist in a single city) and more from the Banu Haqim sorcerers now being an official part of the Camarilla, with their own brand of blood magic. They've been arranging this since before the fall of the Pyramid and were in a perfect place to take advantage of the chaos to gain influence....
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  • Huh, I thought Fortitude in V20 couldn't soak aggravated damage (such as from fire)? I must be misremembering how the mechanics work. If Fortitude can do it, then yeah it's fine for other disciplines to do the same.

    The point about fire and sunlight being anathema to vitae is listed as part of the Tremere paradigm in DAV20 core (it's in published material, not a headcanon), which is why I think Tremere sorcery specifically shouldn't be able to manipulate it—isn't the whole point of an Ascension-style paradigm, mechanically, that it makes some things easier, some things harder, and...
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  • OOC answer, it's a change in mechanics between the editions. Same as how a Quietus power in V20 core is an Obfuscate power in DAV20 core. I don't think an IC explanation was ever provided....
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  • We know additional clans will be in free DLC, and the first free DLC is wolf-themed, so a lot of people are assuming the Gangrel will appear then.
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  • Right; I don't think those disciplines should be able to give fire immunity either, if Fortitude can't. (Well, maybe Daimonion, if it's granted by external entities instead of being part of the Kindred condition.) Since the Tremere paradigm says that fire specifically is anathema to vitae and destroys it by its presence, I'd think the whole vitae-based working would fall apart as soon as the fire showed up....
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Draconis
Draconis
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