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  • That aspect is cool, it's the open embrace of masters worse than the Antediluvians that's not a thing I want. Have the Templars and Inquisitors keep their role. (Because CSI: demonology is fun)...
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  • Thing is they originally were 'something grander' it was Revised that degenerated them into non functional incompetents....
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  • Doing infernalist blood cults is one thing (probably a cool thing), but they should not be the Sabbats new hotness, keep the cults as hidden evil, infiltrating the sects and other cults....
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  • 1. They aren't ironic, it was a sincere tribute, and wholesale stealing of a good idea for the Chruch of Caine (I believe it was Clanbook Lasombra that talked about this, but can't be sure)

    2. Don't forget the freedom

    3. It's at the price of servitude, so in no way free.

    4. Some of it, they go no where near far enough (Infernalism Path of Screams and the Books of Madness makes this clear) as well as the Baali

    5. That already exists, it is the real struggle for survival, if the Inquisiton looses we basically end up with Chaos Space Marines with...
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  • You do not.defeat enslavement by becoming a slave to something worse, not do you renounce Caine, seriously, stop calling for the obliteration of a sect, that despite all claims to the contrary you clearly hate. I get it, you want anarchs and cam as the only viable playable groups, at least be honest about it....
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  • And they were hunted. Of Infernalism was embraced, that is ;Belial's brood, and a no thanks. The idea of the Sabbat embracing their own.enslavememt stops them being the Sabbat. And leaves the anarchs as the only free group, as I hate anarchs, I would then have no faction that interests me left in the setting....
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    Last edited by Taggie; Yesterday, 01:21 AM.

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  • That faction existed, in VtR, Belial's Brood, let's just say I never liked VtR, and that I vastly prefer the Sabbat, so turning them into the Brood is a no thank you. In fact the themes and setting aspects of VtR appearing in VtM are all no thank you....
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    Last edited by Taggie; Yesterday, 12:58 AM.

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  • I find infinite space, with all the cosmic nightmares that holds scarier than fat old ghosts, sorry, the maelstrom is not scary to anything like that degree, and is certainly infinitely less interesting. Only beings that come close to that unknowable menace are the Aspects of the Wyrm, and maybe the Nephandic Oracles, but they worship what lies beyond, so are tied to it....
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    Last edited by Taggie; 10-19-2020, 02:55 PM.

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  • The Deep Umbra is where the literal Lovecraftian things that care not for humanity live, who may annihilate our reality as a by product of something else they are planning. The Abyss holds...angry old ghosts grown fat, but still originally human, or, at it's far side, the prison of the Fallen...I know which fills me with more dread, and the maelstrom/Abyss isn't it. Malfaen Incarna, and the lords of the abyss, you can bargain with, maybe foil their plans, they are a WoD take on fantasy evil gods...the things beyond the far horizon are so far beyond them as for that gap to be meaningless, and...
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    Last edited by Taggie; 10-19-2020, 01:47 PM.

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  • I vastly prefer the 'Abyss beyond the Far Horizon' that Obtenerbration hit, compared to that unknowable, uncaring weirdness, the Maelstrom is far to understandable. sorry....
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  • Because this is the WoD and the point is to find horror. And viscititude is the best discipline that allows you to explore body horror, Obtenebration was the best at Lovecraftian Cosmic horror (but that is now completely gone, replaced with Wraiths utterly boring maelstrom, which was a problem Wraith always had), Dominate is the nightmarish destruction of free will and identity, Presence is super rohypnol at its base, with the horror that implies, etc etc. Vampires are monsters, either honest ones transcending the chrysalis that was their humanity, or failed ones clinging to mortal identity,...
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    Last edited by Taggie; 10-19-2020, 02:46 AM.

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  • You are conflating Tzimisce with Metamorphosist, not all Tzim are on that path, ( hell I have never played one who is) Viscititude is body horror and possibly cosmic horror into a heady blend of cool, but they aren't all metamorphosis adherents. ( And I just love the body horror Voivode, on Death and the Soul, or even Honorable Accord, rending its servants, and enemies into forms that amuse it, while changing it's flesh to suit whim, or task)...
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    Last edited by Taggie; 10-19-2020, 02:25 AM.

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  • Ok, you had it weighted more to protean, my bad (tho the Quietus issue still stands for the Bani) y
    From what you had written, I assumed you meant for viscittutude to be a replacement set of powers of sorcery to impose Protean changes on other people, and to expand what Protean could do for everyone....
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  • Again, see the '1 power per dot' point, you are either good at vicissitude or sorcery, not both, under your suggestion. The Same issue Bani Haqim sorcerers have with Quietus/ Sorcery....
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  • If you give them Blood Sorcery, Kolduns will have the same problem Bani Haqim Sorcerers do: They are either good at their clan discipline: Viscittitude and Quietus in these examples OR they have decent Blood Magic, they can't have both due to not being able to have more than one power at a dot, (Also this screws over the Necroscope vibe that is core to what at least a large chunk of Tzim players love)...
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  • More like https://youtu.be/k3sRzY_RXDk?t=165...
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  • That's the one. Thanks....
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  • Loosing Harmony for Feral Heart did suck (or that weird dualist Montreal path whose name escapes me), The Sabbat should be this alliance of licks who hate the antes and cast aside humanity, the purges come after you win, not during the war, the settling of accounts and ossification of faith to religion happens when and where peace and power are secure, with that comes a new kind of horror.

    The Sabbat, or rather the Paths should be where you end up, with Humanity impossible to hold in the long term, as the few decades of life are swamped by centuries of undeath....
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  • Thanks for the bullet points.

    On Cyberpunk, I like it as a genre as well, but the Anarchs never hit that vibe for me.

    The Sabbat however hit the successful revolutionary paramilitary organization vibe, with added mysticism and totally inhuman monstrosity, combining things I find fascinating from modern history with what I love about schlock b movie vampire horror, with a dash of occultism, I was and am hooked, but then I always liked Necroscope, Dusk til Dawn, and 30 Days of Night more than Anne Rice. That ability to be a combination of Che Guevara, Crowley and the Lovecraftian...
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  • We have a very different view of the Anarchs it's true, mostly going back to my view of their treatment of real civil rights heroes as a WoD Gypsies level cock up, and the 'Shadowrunners with fangs' that became 'insulting pastiche of real political movements, but with added gang banging and fangs' as negatives I can't get past, with the majority of Anarchs players I have met just reinforcing that impression. So, yea I do have reasons for not liking them, but what ever.

    So ok, let them win the Crusade, drop the spirit nuke and pretend it was cleverer than it was originally portrayed...
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